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Post by Telemachus on Oct 8, 2017 21:29:55 GMT
Anyway, just to whet your appetite for greater things, there was a pre-declared flight from Portmoak on Thursday, 4 turning points traversing Scotland several times, 1003km flown at an average of 126kph. One of the few 1000km flights done in the UK www.bgaladder.co.uk/dscore.asp?FlightID=68582&RC=X
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Post by Delta9 on Oct 8, 2017 21:35:28 GMT
It has cost me about £430 and three weeks to get to solo. I did a day course for £125 which gave me 7 launches and 2 months club membership. Flying as a club member it has cost £9 per winch launch and 35p for every minute in the air. I did my day course on 14th October, so still have a month of membership left. To become a full member is £420 per year. Blimey, must be a Southern club at that price! Our club is £168 per year! But then that's a pretty short timeframe for you so they must be well set up with full time instructors and winch drivers. Ed: oh I think you said it was Shennington earlier. Yes, Shenington. It is actually one of the cheapest in this area. They have a good set up, and are 7 days a week for the best part of the year. The only cheaper option is a weekend only place which isn't great for me.
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Post by tomsk on Oct 8, 2017 21:43:28 GMT
I've been thinking about having a go at gliding off and on for years but never actually made the commitment for various reasons. I will naturally do my own research, but seeing as a surprising number of Members fly I would be a Twat not to ask advice; What very roughly speaking are the costs and realistic timeframe for a complete novice to gain their ticket (completely subjective I know)? It has cost me about £430 and three weeks to get to solo. I did a day course for £125 which gave me 7 launches and 2 months club membership. Flying as a club member it has cost £9 per winch launch and 35p for every minute in the air. I did my day course on 14th October, so still have a month of membership left. To become a full member is £420 per year. Cheers D9, Its seems eminently doable then. I have delved into the BGA site a little more and was surprised how inexpensive it looked to take up. I thought I had missed something but your post suggests not, the costs seem in line with most serious 'Hobbies' and certainly compare favourably with my spend on coarse fishing Memberships and equipment. I also fancy getting the boy-child a 'taster' lesson to show him there is something more exciting and involving than X-Box and Walking Dead It's about time I did something exciting and interesting again
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 21:52:08 GMT
It has cost me about £430 and three weeks to get to solo. I did a day course for £125 which gave me 7 launches and 2 months club membership. Flying as a club member it has cost £9 per winch launch and 35p for every minute in the air. I did my day course on 14th October, so still have a month of membership left. To become a full member is £420 per year. Blimey, must be a Southern club at that price! Our club is £168 per year! But then that's a pretty short timeframe for you so they must be well set up with full time instructors and winch drivers. Ed: oh I think you said it was Shennington earlier. What do you get for £168 per year Nick? Doesn't your club charge for air time in club gliders and launch fees? Maybe you have special arrangement or something...
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Post by thebfg on Oct 8, 2017 21:54:13 GMT
Blimey, must be a Southern club at that price! Our club is £168 per year! But then that's a pretty short timeframe for you so they must be well set up with full time instructors and winch drivers. Ed: oh I think you said it was Shennington earlier. What do you get for £168 per year Nick? Doesn't your club charge for air time in club gliders and launch fees? Maybe you have special arrangement or something... surely nick owns his own glider and only has to pay launch fees.
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Post by Delta9 on Oct 8, 2017 21:57:33 GMT
It has cost me about £430 and three weeks to get to solo. I did a day course for £125 which gave me 7 launches and 2 months club membership. Flying as a club member it has cost £9 per winch launch and 35p for every minute in the air. I did my day course on 14th October, so still have a month of membership left. To become a full member is £420 per year. Cheers D9, Its seems eminently doable then. I have delved into the BGA site a little more and was surprised how inexpensive it looked to take up. I thought I had missed something but your post suggests not, the costs seem in line with most serious 'Hobbies' and certainly compare favourably with my spend on coarse fishing Memberships and equipment. I also fancy getting the boy-child a 'taster' lesson to show him there is something more exciting and involving than X-Box and Walking Dead It's about time I did something exciting and interesting again It has been a great experience so far. I had been getting bored with my other hobby of metal detecting. Detecting was fun when I lived in Spain searching in the sea for gold, but after moving back to the UK, far from the coast, I tried to take up detecting in fields. I gave it a good go, but grew bored of the mud and the cold and walking for hours finding nothing. I needed a bit more excitement, so decided to send what little money I have on something a bit more entertaining that had always interested me. It has been great value for money. As Nick says, it is a club experience rather than just turning up for a lesson. My days at the airfield have been spent learning about the other aspects of gliding, helping launch and retrieve gliders, driving winch etc... You don't really get a chance to be bored. You get a full day out for your money.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 22:00:19 GMT
Anyway, just to whet your appetite for greater things, there was a pre-declared flight from Portmoak on Thursday, 4 turning points traversing Scotland several times, 1003km flown at an average of 126kph. One of the few 1000km flights done in the UK www.bgaladder.co.uk/dscore.asp?FlightID=68582&RC=XVery good for this time of year. Chicken engine noted though...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 22:02:02 GMT
Cheers D9, Its seems eminently doable then. I have delved into the BGA site a little more and was surprised how inexpensive it looked to take up. I thought I had missed something but your post suggests not, the costs seem in line with most serious 'Hobbies' and certainly compare favourably with my spend on coarse fishing Memberships and equipment. I also fancy getting the boy-child a 'taster' lesson to show him there is something more exciting and involving than X-Box and Walking Dead It's about time I did something exciting and interesting again It has been a great experience so far. I had been getting bored with my other hobby of metal detecting. Detecting was fun when I lived in Spain searching in the sea for gold, but after moving back to the UK, far from the coast, I tried to take up detecting in fields. I gave it a good go, but grew bored of the mud and the cold and walking for hours finding nothing. I needed a bit more excitement, so decided to send what little money I have on something a bit more entertaining that had always interested me. It has been great value for money. As Nick says, it is a club experience rather than just turning up for a lesson. My days at the airfield have been spent learning about the other aspects of gliding, helping launch and retrieve gliders, driving winch etc... You don't really get a chance to be bored. You get a full day out for your money. You could try masterbation...
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 8, 2017 22:10:56 GMT
I think people who don't have one, think a small sustainer engine in a glider is some magic bullet. But it isn't. Mine is a crappy 24hp single cylinder 2 stroke that, when I fly at 49kts (slower than it wants to fly) gives me about 1kt climb. Unless there is any sinking air! The need to fly slowly and the very low climb rate means it's absolutely not a "get me out of the shit" engine, it is merely something one might start when downwind in the circuit to land, in order to save a retrieve or a relight.
Single ignition, might conk out any time, might not start after cold soaking at -30C at altitude etc.
(edit: answering BP, forgot to quote).
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Post by Andyberg on Oct 8, 2017 22:18:08 GMT
It has been a great experience so far. I had been getting bored with my other hobby of metal detecting. Detecting was fun when I lived in Spain searching in the sea for gold, but after moving back to the UK, far from the coast, I tried to take up detecting in fields. I gave it a good go, but grew bored of the mud and the cold and walking for hours finding nothing. I needed a bit more excitement, so decided to send what little money I have on something a bit more entertaining that had always interested me. It has been great value for money. As Nick says, it is a club experience rather than just turning up for a lesson. My days at the airfield have been spent learning about the other aspects of gliding, helping launch and retrieve gliders, driving winch etc... You don't really get a chance to be bored. You get a full day out for your money. You could try masterbation... is that like masturbation but with young men?
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Post by Delta9 on Oct 8, 2017 22:26:31 GMT
It has been a great experience so far. I had been getting bored with my other hobby of metal detecting. Detecting was fun when I lived in Spain searching in the sea for gold, but after moving back to the UK, far from the coast, I tried to take up detecting in fields. I gave it a good go, but grew bored of the mud and the cold and walking for hours finding nothing. I needed a bit more excitement, so decided to send what little money I have on something a bit more entertaining that had always interested me. It has been great value for money. As Nick says, it is a club experience rather than just turning up for a lesson. My days at the airfield have been spent learning about the other aspects of gliding, helping launch and retrieve gliders, driving winch etc... You don't really get a chance to be bored. You get a full day out for your money. You could try masterbation... Hard going to get a full day of entertainment from it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 22:30:36 GMT
You could try masterbation... is that like masturbation but with young men? There's always one cocky git...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 22:35:42 GMT
I think people who don't have one, think a small sustainer engine in a glider is some magic bullet. But it isn't. Mine is a crappy 24hp single cylinder 2 stroke that, when I fly at 49kts (slower than it wants to fly) gives me about 1kt climb. Unless there is any sinking air! The need to fly slowly and the very low climb rate means it's absolutely not a "get me out of the shit" engine, it is merely something one might start when downwind in the circuit to land, in order to save a retrieve or a relight. Single ignition, might conk out any time, might not start after cold soaking at -30C at altitude etc. (edit: answering BP, forgot to quote). The big question though Nick...would you have taken the risks you did without it? The bottom line is that that little 'crappy' engine would get you out of trouble in the scheme of things. Cheat...cheat... . ...erm...I'd probably do the same thing...
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Post by tomsk on Oct 8, 2017 23:04:58 GMT
I've been thinking about having a go at gliding off and on for years but never actually made the commitment for various reasons. I will naturally do my own research, but seeing as a surprising number of Members fly I would be a Twat not to ask advice; What very roughly speaking are the costs and realistic timeframe for a complete novice to gain their ticket (completely subjective I know)? Looking at the BGA site I see four clubs within striking distance, two of which make the most appeal on paper, Yorkshire GC at Thirsk or Wolds at Pocklington. Has anyone any knowledge of these clubs and their facilities with regard to Instruction or would I be better off travelling a little further? Well firstly, there is currently no "ticket" for gliding. A licence is not required to fly a glider in the UK. If you mean to go solo (which is only the tinyest beginning) then it will depend quite a bit on your age. We recently got a 15 year old solo after 27 launches. A 65 year old is likely to take 100+ launches and in fact may never go solo. Then there is the type of launching. Winch launches are fairly cheap and give you more takeoffs and landings for your money, but typically less airborne time, whereas aerotows are more expensive but you get more time at altitude to master flying around in a low stress environment. I suppose a good compromise is aerotows to start with to get the hang of flying generally, then winch launches to master the more difficult bit where the ground is in close proximity. Some clubs have both launching methods, but not all. generally gliding is not particularly expensive in money terms, but it is in time terms. Nearly all gliding clubs are run by volunteers (which is why it is cheap) and one is expected to spend time helping out with all the necessary things - hooking on cables and holding wings at the launch point, retrieving landed gliders etc. Unlike power flying, it is not the case that you pitch up, have a briefing, go flying, have a debrief and then go home. But then power flying is MUCH more expensive. Gliding costs are club membership, launch costs and per minute flying time. Instruction is normally free, provided by volunteers. Clubs have their costs on their websites. Ive never been to Pocklington but I think it's a fairly flat site? Good in summer (thermals) but no good in winter, I suspect. Yorkshire GC is on top of Sutton Bank and I suggest is therefore a better bet for the winter as there is plenty of hill soaring to be had, to keep you airborne in winter whilst you are mastering flying. Thanks for this, all useful. YGC was my preferred choice, based on nothing other than it's altitude and proximity.
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 9, 2017 7:11:29 GMT
I think people who don't have one, think a small sustainer engine in a glider is some magic bullet. But it isn't. Mine is a crappy 24hp single cylinder 2 stroke that, when I fly at 49kts (slower than it wants to fly) gives me about 1kt climb. Unless there is any sinking air! The need to fly slowly and the very low climb rate means it's absolutely not a "get me out of the shit" engine, it is merely something one might start when downwind in the circuit to land, in order to save a retrieve or a relight. Single ignition, might conk out any time, might not start after cold soaking at -30C at altitude etc. (edit: answering BP, forgot to quote). The big question though Nick...would you have taken the risks you did without it? The bottom line is that that little 'crappy' engine would get you out of trouble in the scheme of things. Cheat...cheat... . ...erm...I'd probably do the same thing... Yes absolutely (to the first point). No, the crappy little engine won't get me out of trouble, it will only save me from an otherwise satisfactory landing in a field. I bought this glider because it was the model I wanted at the right price, not because it was the variant with the engine. When I am pushing my luck low in the mountains I never consider the possibility of starting the engine as it would probably be catastrophic. To start the engine I have to put it up, maybe 10 seconds during which the glide angle goes from 55:1 to perhaps 20:1. Fuel on, ignition on, prop brake off, set throttle, dive to about 80kts and give a well timed pull on the starter cord and hope for the best, slow to 49kts when it fires. You need about 400' to do all that. I'm often below 400' agl when things get sticky and the way our of the shit is often to fly fast through the sink, pointing downhill. Once you have the engine out you can no longer use the glider's performance and since the climb rate is only 1kt, more than likely you are in trouble because there is more than 1kt of sink and so the engine will take you to the scene of the crash. To put the engine away if it doesn't start is very difficult as you have to use the prop brake and pull start to manually set the prop in the 12 o'clock position, looking in the tiny mirror on the coaming (it's a fixed 2 blade prop) before it will retract. In the mean time you have the 20:1 glide angle even at low speed. Nope, I can hand on heart say it never enters my mind to use the engine at awkward times. I think perhaps if you have a self-launcher with automatic sequencing and electric start, the better rate of climb, twin ignition and ease of starting might be slightly different but even so, flying fast is normally the way out of trouble and you can't do that with the engine out. i think the proof of the pudding is that I fly my Ventus b/16.6 (no engine) with exactly the same safety margins as I do the ASH25E.
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