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Post by phil70 on Jan 5, 2018 10:08:10 GMT
The news report that highlighted this showed the owner of an Italian restaurant in Windsor verbally attacking a homeless aid worker who was trying to assist some rough sleepers. The owner of the restaurant blamed the homeless for the lack of trade st his eatery. The Police escorted the aid worker away, I'm not sure why. Phil If you substitute the word “beggar” for “rough sleeper” you get a slightly different picture. After all, these “rough sleepers” were not actually asleep, were they? i am all for giving support and help to the homeless, many of whom have mental health problems that our society is very bad at helping with, but we have a welfare system that means people should not need to beg on the high street. Street begging should not be encouraged by aid workers. So rough sleepers become beggars when they wake up? I don't have the stats but in the last couple of days a TV prog demonstrated that a fairly large ratio of rough sleepers are in fact in employment.
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Post by lollygagger on Jan 5, 2018 10:10:39 GMT
If our welfare system was up to scratch there wouldn't be a problem, but it's so onerous and useless that anyone who still has any self respect avoids it, preferring some control over their situation.
And what of the class at the other end who use their intelligence and/or lucky birth to also do fuck all useful and bleed middle society dry? The reason for begging on the streets is the greedy fuckers at the top who cream off any loose penny and see themselves as above the rest of us, leaving those in the middle to pay for everything with an ever reducing pot. Reducing due to those at the top grabbing a bigger and bigger slice, not due to beggars or bad government management.
Having just re-read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists, we are deliberately heading back fast to the early 1900's when it was easier to shaft and simultaneously blame the poor
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Post by bills on Jan 5, 2018 10:16:18 GMT
It looks like thebfg needs to stay well away from Windsor.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 10:23:12 GMT
The River's running fast at the moment. Ideal time to lob the horrible parasites off Eton bridge so they can drown in the weir. With any luck they might be gobbled up by the Archimedes screw hydro power unit. Crunch crunch.
Once that is done then the local authority can start to work out what to do with the rough sleepers.
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Post by Graham on Jan 5, 2018 10:53:43 GMT
The news report that highlighted this showed the owner of an Italian restaurant in Windsor verbally attacking a homeless aid worker who was trying to assist some rough sleepers. The owner of the restaurant blamed the homeless for the lack of trade st his eatery. The Police escorted the aid worker away, I'm not sure why. Phil If you substitute the word “beggar” for “rough sleeper” you get a slightly different picture. After all, these “rough sleepers” were not actually asleep, were they? i am all for giving support and help to the homeless, many of whom have mental health problems that our society is very bad at helping with, but we have a welfare system that means people should not need to beg on the high street. Street begging should not be encouraged by aid workers. Unfortunately Nick, it is obvious that you have never had to deal with the welfare system let alone as a homeless person. Basically no matter what all the rules say and what is published in press releases a homeless person does not exist on the welfare front until they have some Aid for a specialise street team. That can take a long time to get for various reason. So some have to beg just to put a mouthful of food in their mouths.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 5, 2018 11:24:23 GMT
If you substitute the word “beggar” for “rough sleeper” you get a slightly different picture. After all, these “rough sleepers” were not actually asleep, were they? i am all for giving support and help to the homeless, many of whom have mental health problems that our society is very bad at helping with, but we have a welfare system that means people should not need to beg on the high street. Street begging should not be encouraged by aid workers. Unfortunately Nick, it is obvious that you have never had to deal with the welfare system let alone as a homeless person. Basically no matter what all the rules say and what is published in press releases a homeless person does not exist on the welfare front until they have some Aid for a specialise street team. That can take a long time to get for various reason. So some have to beg just to put a mouthful of food in their mouths. The thing is that not all homeless people beg, and not all high street beggars are homeless. This is why I dislike equating one group with the other. I am certainly not trying to play down the problems of homelessness, which are pretty shocking for a supposedly 1st world civilised country, but tolerating high street begging from a minority of maybe homeless maybe not, is not the solution.
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Post by NigelMoore on Jan 5, 2018 13:20:50 GMT
The thing is that not all homeless people beg, and not all high street beggars are homeless. I slept rough for about 6 months in London during the 1981/82 winter [lots of deep snow]. I was working full time, courtesy of a nearby unskilled industrial temp agency, and wanted to save money for the next overseas trip I had planned. On a take-home pay of around £50/week I was not going to waste any on accommodation. I made sure nobody could see where I slept; I never understood the doorway on the public street thing – the closest I got to that was when later taking my baby sister on a trip through Spain, and we spent the first night in Madrid atop a wide sweep of stairs leading to some major civic building. Although we were out in the open, we were not visible from the street. It was not the most restful night; she kept shaking me awake fearful of noises from the street below, and I had to keep reassuring her we were fine. She never did quite get over the experience. I credit myself with being a major factor in her decision to “settle for suburbia and a little patch of land”, with career, husband and two kids.
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Post by NigelMoore on Jan 5, 2018 15:38:55 GMT
not all high street beggars are homeless. This reminded me of a Sherlock Holmes story I read in my youth, so I have just googled for it. It was in “The Man with the Twisted Lip” – “I wrote my articles and thought little more of the matter until, some time later, I backed a bill for a friend and had a writ served upon me for £25. I was at my wit’s end where to get the money, but a sudden idea came to me. I begged a fortnight’s grace from the creditor, asked for a holiday from my employers, and spent the time in begging in the City under my disguise. In ten days I had the money and had paid the debt.
“Well, you can imagine how hard it was to settle down to arduous work at £2 a week when I knew that I could earn as much in a day by smearing my face with a little paint, laying my cap on the ground, and sitting still. It was a long fight between my pride and the money, but the dollars won at last, and I threw up reporting and sat day after day in the corner which I had first chosen, inspiring pity by my ghastly face and filling my pockets with coppers.
. . .
"Well, very soon I found that I was saving considerable sums of money. I do not mean that any beggar in the streets of London could earn £700 a year—which is less than my average takings—but I had exceptional advantages in my power of making up, and also in a facility of repartee, which improved by practice and made me quite a recognised character in the City. All day a stream of pennies, varied by silver, poured in upon me, and it was a very bad day in which I failed to take £2.
“As I grew richer I grew more ambitious, took a house in the country, and eventually married, without anyone having a suspicion as to my real occupation. My dear wife knew that I had business in the City. She little knew what.”
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Post by bargemast on Jan 5, 2018 15:48:38 GMT
not all high street beggars are homeless. This reminded me of a Sherlock Holmes story I read in my youth, so I have just googled for it. It was in “The Man with the Twisted Lip” – “I wrote my articles and thought little more of the matter until, some time later, I backed a bill for a friend and had a writ served upon me for £25. I was at my wit’s end where to get the money, but a sudden idea came to me. I begged a fortnight’s grace from the creditor, asked for a holiday from my employers, and spent the time in begging in the City under my disguise. In ten days I had the money and had paid the debt.
“Well, you can imagine how hard it was to settle down to arduous work at £2 a week when I knew that I could earn as much in a day by smearing my face with a little paint, laying my cap on the ground, and sitting still. It was a long fight between my pride and the money, but the dollars won at last, and I threw up reporting and sat day after day in the corner which I had first chosen, inspiring pity by my ghastly face and filling my pockets with coppers.
. . .
"Well, very soon I found that I was saving considerable sums of money. I do not mean that any beggar in the streets of London could earn £700 a year—which is less than my average takings—but I had exceptional advantages in my power of making up, and also in a facility of repartee, which improved by practice and made me quite a recognised character in the City. All day a stream of pennies, varied by silver, poured in upon me, and it was a very bad day in which I failed to take £2.
“As I grew richer I grew more ambitious, took a house in the country, and eventually married, without anyone having a suspicion as to my real occupation. My dear wife knew that I had business in the City. She little knew what.”
That's a great story Nigel, I'm sure that there will be still a few beggers that don't need to beg, as they don't need the money anymore, for them it has become a sort of sport, just to see if they can break yesterdays record. But I'm also sure that most of the beggers haven't got much choice than doing what they're doing, as they have to eat, and maybe even try to feed their families. Peter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 16:29:52 GMT
I don't ever give money to "beggars" or "charities" (charity shops excepted but when I give them money I recieve goods).
If I give money to one beggar then I have to give to them all otherwise I am prejudiced. Ooh look you gave money to the blind beggar but not to the black beggar. Prejudice is immoral. If I gave to all beggars I would be a beggar myself. So I don't.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 16:34:39 GMT
Romanian gypsies have plenty of money for fags and gambling on fruit machines, and they own plently of very grand houses in Romania. It's a disgusting scam blessed by EU rules. They do the 'deaf & dumb scam', the 'gold ring con trick' and the give-you-a-rose-and-then-run-after-you-demanding-you-pay-for-it ruse. They should all be rounded up and taken to the Romanian Embassy and locked up in there with the poxy Romanian ambassador. I blame chow chess coo (CBA to look up the correct spelling but he fleeced his people well and truly). I agree with the thrust of your argument. I would be unsurprisd to learn that a lot of these people have houses "back home" and are making a commercial decision to beg in the uk (or they are being trafficked ) which was more or less what the Windsor council geyser said.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 16:47:38 GMT
Have a safe flight
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Post by tonyb on Jan 5, 2018 16:52:42 GMT
On the other hand one rough sleeper said, yes, he had been offered accommodation but it was in West Drayton and he had no means to get there plus he wanted to be near his elderly mother.
It seems to me its another case of both sides perhaps only telling half the truth and it looks like Windsor & Maidenhead are trying to export their problems.
Anyway I thought begging was illegal, I also thought there was an offence of being abroad with no visible means of support. If so its another case of the police deciding other crimes/misdemeanours are more important and ignoring it. Note, I do not mention rough sleepers here.
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Post by Graham on Jan 5, 2018 18:33:53 GMT
not all high street beggars are homeless. This reminded me of a Sherlock Holmes story I read in my youth, so I have just googled for it. It was in “The Man with the Twisted Lip” – “I wrote my articles and thought little more of the matter until, some time later, I backed a bill for a friend and had a writ served upon me for £25. I was at my wit’s end where to get the money, but a sudden idea came to me. I begged a fortnight’s grace from the creditor, asked for a holiday from my employers, and spent the time in begging in the City under my disguise. In ten days I had the money and had paid the debt.
“Well, you can imagine how hard it was to settle down to arduous work at £2 a week when I knew that I could earn as much in a day by smearing my face with a little paint, laying my cap on the ground, and sitting still. It was a long fight between my pride and the money, but the dollars won at last, and I threw up reporting and sat day after day in the corner which I had first chosen, inspiring pity by my ghastly face and filling my pockets with coppers.
. . .
"Well, very soon I found that I was saving considerable sums of money. I do not mean that any beggar in the streets of London could earn £700 a year—which is less than my average takings—but I had exceptional advantages in my power of making up, and also in a facility of repartee, which improved by practice and made me quite a recognised character in the City. All day a stream of pennies, varied by silver, poured in upon me, and it was a very bad day in which I failed to take £2.
“As I grew richer I grew more ambitious, took a house in the country, and eventually married, without anyone having a suspicion as to my real occupation. My dear wife knew that I had business in the City. She little knew what.”
I remember many years ago back in the early 60s in Kisumu on my way back to my lodging with a friend who was a local police Inspector, we came across a police office arresting a vagrant/beggar. A which my normal sympathies rose to the top, my friend suggested that we accompany the Officer and his charge to the Station. At the station they removed his wooden leg. Inside was more than several time my years salary. So yes there are some professional beggars, but there are I believe many more who are not professionals. The local police know the professionals and I suspect deal with them under the Vagrancy Act etc, They also know the homeless and are shall we say more caring and tried to guide them to help. Oh I have never given money to a beggar since that day in Kisumu. I have bought meals and made phone calls to the right people but never money .
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 5, 2018 18:45:04 GMT
This reminded me of a Sherlock Holmes story I read in my youth, so I have just googled for it. It was in “The Man with the Twisted Lip” – “I wrote my articles and thought little more of the matter until, some time later, I backed a bill for a friend and had a writ served upon me for £25. I was at my wit’s end where to get the money, but a sudden idea came to me. I begged a fortnight’s grace from the creditor, asked for a holiday from my employers, and spent the time in begging in the City under my disguise. In ten days I had the money and had paid the debt.
“Well, you can imagine how hard it was to settle down to arduous work at £2 a week when I knew that I could earn as much in a day by smearing my face with a little paint, laying my cap on the ground, and sitting still. It was a long fight between my pride and the money, but the dollars won at last, and I threw up reporting and sat day after day in the corner which I had first chosen, inspiring pity by my ghastly face and filling my pockets with coppers.
. . .
"Well, very soon I found that I was saving considerable sums of money. I do not mean that any beggar in the streets of London could earn £700 a year—which is less than my average takings—but I had exceptional advantages in my power of making up, and also in a facility of repartee, which improved by practice and made me quite a recognised character in the City. All day a stream of pennies, varied by silver, poured in upon me, and it was a very bad day in which I failed to take £2.
“As I grew richer I grew more ambitious, took a house in the country, and eventually married, without anyone having a suspicion as to my real occupation. My dear wife knew that I had business in the City. She little knew what.”
I remember many years ago back in the early 60s in Kisumu on my way back to my lodging with a friend who was a local police Inspector, we came across a police office arresting a vagrant/beggar. A which my normal sympathies rose to the top, my friend suggested that we accompany the Officer and his charge to the Station. At the station they removed his wooden leg. Inside was more than several time my years salary. So yes there are some professional beggars, but there are I believe many more who are not professionals. The local police know the professionals and I suspect deal with them under the Vagrancy Act etc, They also know the homeless and are shall we say more caring and tried to guide them to help. Oh I have never given money to a beggar since that day in Kisumu. I have bought meals and made phone calls to the right people but never money . I generally avoid giving to beggars but I did feel a bit guilty last year when I went into a Supermarket in Birmingham with an allegedly homeless beggar outside, and I came out fully loaded with bags of shopping, wine etc. I put the stuff into the car and went back to him, I asked him if he would like me to buy him a sandwich or a hot drink. He looked at me in disgust and declined my offer! He only wanted cash. I haven't spoken to any street beggars since.
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