Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 11:08:50 GMT
I think he is referring to his area. I didn't say he wasn't. Oh fuck off Martin. You jumped in with your foot in your mouth, and without thinking.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 11:26:43 GMT
When I get a minute I'll post the advisory about our fixed ventilation on our current BSS - it's an arse covering excersise plan and simple. Have a look at 8.9.1 and tell me where it implies it’s optional. I’m sure there is a sliding scale, ie minor shortfall you get an advisory, significant shortfall you get a fail, and if you only have 50% you get an unsafe notice (Appendix A). Nick look at the table it Goes: - 8.9.1 Is the Vessel fitted with Adequate fixed Ventilation? A Have a guess what A means..... Did the boat meet all the applicable minimum safety requirements? – Yes, but some advice checks did not pass Check Items marked as required (R) are linked to navigation authority requirements and must be addressed in order for the boat to pass. Check Items marked (A) are advice. The boat owner bears the responsibility for the safety of the crew concerning advice items. These will not prevent a boat passing. Comments marked as non-specific (NS) are observations from the examiner not linked to the BSS Examination Checking Procedures, but may still help to keep the crew safe if acted on. Check Item Check Item Details Further Details Of The Examiner’s Observations And Findings 8.10.2A Are all appliance flues and exhausts complete and in good condition? Fridge flue extended from standard. 8.9.1A Is the vessel provided with adequate fixed ventilation? No, provide additional cabin ventilation when using appliances. Nick, Note the difference between R and A. Or more easily aRse And elbow.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 11:28:59 GMT
Oh fuck off Martin. You jumped in with your foot in your mouth, and without thinking. Language dear boy. I was merely pointing out there is somebody else who I would (and did) trust to do a BSS inspection. However you as usual couldn't resist sticking your oar in before engaging your brain.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 11:42:02 GMT
Oh fuck off Martin. You jumped in with your foot in your mouth, and without thinking. Language dear boy. I was merely pointing out there is somebody else who I would (and did) trust to do a BSS inspection. However you as usual couldn't resist sticking your oar in before engaging your brain. Wtf are you like eh? Comical with some of your explanations, but you still come across as bullshitting...
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jan 24, 2018 11:54:45 GMT
Have a look at 8.9.1 and tell me where it implies it’s optional. I’m sure there is a sliding scale, ie minor shortfall you get an advisory, significant shortfall you get a fail, and if you only have 50% you get an unsafe notice (Appendix A). Nick look at the table it Goes: - 8.9.1 Is the Vessel fitted with Adequate fixed Ventilation? A Have a guess what A means..... Did the boat meet all the applicable minimum safety requirements? – Yes, but some advice checks did not pass Check Items marked as required (R) are linked to navigation authority requirements and must be addressed in order for the boat to pass. Check Items marked (A) are advice. The boat owner bears the responsibility for the safety of the crew concerning advice items. These will not prevent a boat passing. Comments marked as non-specific (NS) are observations from the examiner not linked to the BSS Examination Checking Procedures, but may still help to keep the crew safe if acted on. Check Item Check Item Details Further Details Of The Examiner’s Observations And Findings 8.10.2A Are all appliance flues and exhausts complete and in good condition? Fridge flue extended from standard. 8.9.1A Is the vessel provided with adequate fixed ventilation? No, provide additional cabin ventilation when using appliances. Nick, Note the difference between R and A. Or more easily aRse And elbow. Oh yes, you are quite right. I had missed the A. Seems odd that it is an A and yet with only 50% of the required ventilation the examiner has to put an "unsafe" notice on. But it does support my original contention that the BSS is about the safety of third parties, not really about the safety of occupants.
|
|
|
Post by naughtyfox on Jan 24, 2018 12:00:27 GMT
I think because the premis of the BSS is mostly about the safety of third parties - ie avoiding fire and explosion that might affect stuff outside the boat. But of course that is not rigorously applied as there is a requirement for adequate ventilation, which is clearly only relevant to occupants. It’s the same with RCDs - only recommended, not mandatory. But I think your fundamental problem is that you are trying to apply logic to a system that is not based on logic, evidence or reasonableness! The door on our 50 year old boat was vandalised by an idiot on the instruction of a BSS examiner. Could you not have taken him to Court and sued him, also reported him to whoever is running the BSS scam? Name that idiot!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 12:06:24 GMT
Yes that's exactly what the BS scheme is. Its not designed to look after boat occupants at all.
Anyway i reckon it was originally dreamt up as an attempt to rid the waterways of some of the more scruffy boats - people who are too disorganised to get things together properly to get a ticket. It must also have pushed some people into "unlicensed" territory I would have thought. I have never liked it but also never had a fail in 23 years and about 8 different boats.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 12:13:21 GMT
Nick look at the table it Goes: - 8.9.1 Is the Vessel fitted with Adequate fixed Ventilation? A Have a guess what A means..... Did the boat meet all the applicable minimum safety requirements? – Yes, but some advice checks did not pass Check Items marked as required (R) are linked to navigation authority requirements and must be addressed in order for the boat to pass. Check Items marked (A) are advice. The boat owner bears the responsibility for the safety of the crew concerning advice items. These will not prevent a boat passing. Comments marked as non-specific (NS) are observations from the examiner not linked to the BSS Examination Checking Procedures, but may still help to keep the crew safe if acted on. Check Item Check Item Details Further Details Of The Examiner’s Observations And Findings 8.10.2A Are all appliance flues and exhausts complete and in good condition? Fridge flue extended from standard. 8.9.1A Is the vessel provided with adequate fixed ventilation? No, provide additional cabin ventilation when using appliances. Nick, Note the difference between R and A. Or more easily aRse And elbow. Oh yes, you are quite right. I had missed the A. Seems odd that it is an A and yet with only 50% of the required ventilation the examiner has to put an "unsafe" notice on. But it does support my original contention that the BSS is about the safety of third parties, not really about the safety of occupants. Bollocks isn't it
|
|
|
Post by cygnus on Jan 24, 2018 12:42:23 GMT
Whenever we have a BSS man they always make out that there's no money in it, yet we've had the same guy for donkeys years. When ours is due we always ask around to see if other boats need it doing. We usually end up making bookings for several boats on the same day thinking that it would cut costs. Last year we organised him to examine 5 boats on the same day. He came and did them in an afternoon. It cost us 110 quid each. He had been elsewhere before coming to us. Not a bad screw if you ask me. If I had my time again !!! A boat opposite me had theirs done, and just theirs, voila 110 quid. So much for doing a block booking to save costs. Mind you, £110 is a good price. Because we had organised the number of boats being examined, that supposedly kept the cost down. We estimated he had earned about a grand that day. The certificate costs were about 30 quid each, the rest was travel, time and labour. Like I said, if I had my time again it might have been something I would have gone into. After all where else can you earn that sort of money after doing a 1 week course, with little technical knowledge. I have just tried to look up the BSS Examiners course and couldn't find any real info due to "course restructuring". However I believe it was something like 500 quid for the course, professional technical qualifications not absolutely necessary, but some nautical technical knowledge beneficial.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 13:17:25 GMT
That's as close as I've seen to a "sorry I was wrong" from Telemachus.
Things are rarely black and white. Life is never that simple.
Overall the BSS is perhaps well intentioned, but is also a money making scheme. Best to find (word of mouth is best) a sensible examiner and stick with him.
I suspect if someone examines, and you don't like what they say, you're stuck with correcting the 'faults' anyway. Can't imagine you can just walk away and try somewhere else.
Rog
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 13:17:42 GMT
I was doing a BTEC in marine engineering in 1995 (which is when the BS became mandatory I think - eith the new act) The college (Berkshire college of agriculture) had a boat safety examiner course running. I didn't do it, unfortunately. I seem to recall it was a week and £1200 or something (that may have been residential) and the people doing it did not appear to be from marine trade or even marine interest backgrounds. Just random people. I really think it should have been selective based on some sort of experience with boats.
Its a scam really. But there we are. Luckily there are still some good inspectors about. How long that will be the case who knows.
I really hate the BS scheme. I'm going to have to jump through hoops to get a license for my little Colvic (i want to keep it on the non tidal thames for summer - could get visitor licenses I suppose) like taking the cooker out because I don't want to cut a hole in the side of the hull for gas locker drain. For ducks sake its been safe for 20 years + (~40 y.o. boat but gas may not be original install.)
And other things no doubt which are perfectly safe and sensible but the sodding BS will say no to.
Hate it. H.A.T.E.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jan 24, 2018 13:48:28 GMT
That's as close as I've seen to a "sorry I was wrong" from Telemachus. If I am wrong, I’ll always admit it. In part, because there is only one thing worse than being wrong, and that is being wrong and trying to bluster your way out of it. Everyone can see through that! You probably haven’t seen it before because it doesn’t happen very often.
|
|
|
Post by kris on Jan 24, 2018 13:57:34 GMT
That's as close as I've seen to a "sorry I was wrong" from Telemachus. If I am wrong, I’ll always admit it. In part, because there is only one thing worse than being wrong, and that is being wrong and trying to bluster your way out of it. Everyone can see through that! You probably haven’t seen it before because it doesn’t happen very often. you just stop posting for a while and sulk when your proved wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jan 24, 2018 14:07:33 GMT
If I am wrong, I’ll always admit it. In part, because there is only one thing worse than being wrong, and that is being wrong and trying to bluster your way out of it. Everyone can see through that! You probably haven’t seen it before because it doesn’t happen very often. you just stop posting for a while and sulk when your proved wrong. What like in this thread for example? You are clearly wrong by the evidence but too thick to see it.
|
|
|
Post by kris on Jan 24, 2018 14:20:56 GMT
you just stop posting for a while and sulk when your proved wrong. What like in this thread for example? You are clearly wrong by the evidence but too thick to see it. next time you do it, I'll remember to point it out. I can't be bothered trawling back through your drivel looking for an example at the moment.
|
|