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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 9:17:22 GMT
Forgive my lack of technical know how, but.....
A friend used to leave his boat moored and connected to the mains so that he could leave heaters etc. turned on in the winter. Whilst plugged into the mains his batteries were constantly being charged as required.
He constantly suffered battery problems as soon as he disconnected and went off cruising, and on more than one occasion had to buy new batteries.
He has since changed his routine, and no longer leaves the boat connected to the mains, and subsequently has had no battery issues at all.
My question is do batteries get over charged when left connected, or somehow short out when not being used as intended (charge then discharge under their own steam).
It's just that I have noticed a similar battery issue with my phone. When at home I charge on mains, when back at the boat on 12v. As I change from one method of charging to the other, I have noticed there is always one day when, for no obvious reason, the phone just goes flat pretty much instantly. It's as though the battery 'gets confused' until a settled charging routine (mains or 12 v) is established.
I realise that is a little fanciful, but there must be a technical reason for this phenomenon.
Rog
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Post by JohnV on Jan 29, 2018 9:38:57 GMT
can't comment on the phone battery situation but as regards the boat batteries ....... A lot depends on the battery charger. To the best of my knowledge (battery technology is not my specialist subject) a battery bank kept correctly charged but not used should last a long long time .......The first set of batteries I had were on shore power battery charger 95% of the time. The charger was a good quality multistage model set for the right type of battery and the set lasted nearly 9 years before they had to be replaced (probably should have been changed at about 6 or 7 but limped along for a bit longer)
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 29, 2018 9:45:37 GMT
Yes it depends on the battery charger. If set to the correct float voltage, this should be better for the batteries than allowing their slow self-discharge to give rise to sulphation. That said, there is an effect called “passivation” which tends to make batteries kept on float, a bit “lazy” during their first discharge cycle, in that the terminal voltage is initially lower than expected for the SoC. However after one discharge / recharge cycle, this effect disappears. We certainly notice that on leaving the marina with batteries having been on float for a few weeks, the first evening the SoC as measured by the Smartgauge (based on voltage) decreases much more rapidly than normal, certainly for the first 20% or so. But by the following evening, all is back to normal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 10:03:37 GMT
That seems to be the possible explanation 'passivation'.
So my fanciful description of the batteries 'getting confused' may be less fanciful than I thought.
My friend, by the way, stopped leaving his boat plugged into the mains because of corrosion issues. He also (belatedly) fitted a galvanic isolator. The battery issue he just noticed following this change of procedures. His charger was one of these travel pack charger, inverter, all singing jobbies.
Thanks
Rog
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Post by markhez on Jan 29, 2018 10:45:42 GMT
If left on a transformer based charger, this would very quickly boil the batteries to death! And as for your phone, it is charged on neither 12v or 240v, it takes 5v - how this 5v is attained makes no difference.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 14:01:20 GMT
That seems to be the possible explanation 'passivation'. So my fanciful description of the batteries 'getting confused' may be less fanciful than I thought. My friend, by the way, stopped leaving his boat plugged into the mains because of corrosion issues. He also (belatedly) fitted a galvanic isolator. The battery issue he just noticed following this change of procedures. His charger was one of these travel pack charger, inverter, all singing jobbies. Thanks Rog Our Mastervolt charger/combi would allow for it to be left permanently left on without damaging the batteries by overcharging, constantly monitoring the charge required and adjusting accordingly. It was a clever (but expensive!!) bit of kit. When we had a marina mooring with mains I always left the boat connected and the charger on. Conversely when we moved to LTM without mains I manged to kill a set of batteries in way less than 2 years by just relying on the alternator for charging whilst out and about or running the engine whilst moored. I'd always planned to get solar but never got aroundtuit then sold the boat. |
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Post by Allan on Jan 29, 2018 16:01:19 GMT
Forgive my lack of technical know how, but..... A friend used to leave his boat moored and connected to the mains so that he could leave heaters etc. turned on in the winter. Whilst plugged into the mains his batteries were constantly being charged as required. He constantly suffered battery problems as soon as he disconnected and went off cruising, and on more than one occasion had to buy new batteries. He has since changed his routine, and no longer leaves the boat connected to the mains, and subsequently has had no battery issues at all. My question is do batteries get over charged when left connected, or somehow short out when not being used as intended (charge then discharge under their own steam). It's just that I have noticed a similar battery issue with my phone. When at home I charge on mains, when back at the boat on 12v. As I change from one method of charging to the other, I have noticed there is always one day when, for no obvious reason, the phone just goes flat pretty much instantly. It's as though the battery 'gets confused' until a settled charging routine (mains or 12 v) is established. I realise that is a little fanciful, but there must be a technical reason for this phenomenon. Rog Regarding your phone - Do you know the make/model? Do you use the same cable at home and on the boat? Do you know the output of the two chargers in amps or milliamps? (both will be say 5V). The reason I ask is that most modern phones have batteries with built in firmware which controls charging and estimates state of charge. There are known problems with some battery firmwares ability to cope with different cables and chargers which can lead to the effect described. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 16:09:48 GMT
One cable for 12v, and separate one when on 240v
Didn't know about the 5v.
My phone is just a phone. Nothing smart. Including the user!
Rog
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Post by Allan on Jan 29, 2018 16:49:28 GMT
One cable for 12v, and separate one when on 240v Didn't know about the 5v. My phone is just a phone. Nothing smart. Including the user! Rog Over the years, most phone manufacturers have standardised charging via a USB cable. Phone one end of a USB cable and the other end plugged into a 240V plug/charger that goes into 13 amp wall socket. a 12V cigarette lighter socket a USB port on a computer or elsewhere ( you can even get wall sockets with USB charging sockets) The thing is any charger that you can plug a USB cable into is 5V output because that is the USB standard. Would still be interested in the make/model of your phone because even if the phone is not smart its battery technology will probably be. Also still interested in the output amps of the chargers. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 16:55:09 GMT
It's a Doro 6520.
Rog
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Post by Allan on Jan 29, 2018 20:26:09 GMT
Forget all I said! The Doro 6520's battery charging is quite old fashioned and would not present the problem you are experiencing. As it has a removable battery, it may be dirty battery contacts. I would suggest you backup any data, take the battery out, then clean the contacts on the battery and inside the case. It is also worth checking that the contacts in the case are free to move such that they make good contact when the battery is reinserted. You can find various suggestions regarding how to clean contacts on the internet. I tend to use a rubber (the sort you find on top of a pencil not the other sort) for the battery and white vinegar on a Q-tip for the contacts in the case if I cant get at them with a rubber. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 21:52:14 GMT
It's working fine, I hope I haven't misled you. It's the change over from mains charging to 12v charging or the reverse. The phone shows fully charged having been on 12v in the boat once back onboard, but very quickly (couple of hours) is flat. Same happens when I first arrive home and charge on mains. Normally I only need to charge it every three days. After the initial change over, the phone charges and the charge lasts as long as I would expect. It's like the battery gets confused (I do know enough to realise battery's don't get confused  ) Rog |
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