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Post by peterboat on Feb 23, 2018 9:52:43 GMT
Modern cruise control can slow the vehicle down and stop the vehicle! but only on certain vehicles and if its used, so in lots of cases cruise control is safer. The real problem was the stupid tosser that decided drink driving is safe and the minibus driver that didnt drive safely, I mean he could have gone onto the hard shoulder to avoid the crash couldnt he? or was the hard shoulder missing as so often the case nowdays Why are you looking to blame the mini bus driver for anything? Who says he wasn't driving safely? You know bog all about his thought process because you were not there. If the hard shoulder was there surely the polish wagon driver would not have been expected to be on it when he pulled up. If he has pulled up and avoided colliding with the wagon in the inside lane he his blameless, if an idiot in an hgv shunts him into the back of another stationary wagon that is nowt to do with him. Thats an easy one Martin if you had ever been a professional driver [ I held both a PCV full and a HGV class one license] You are taught to drive defensively, in other words you avoid situations that endanger your passengers others, and yourself and the minibus driver didnt. The last lorry which ran into the lot clearly did the killing but the other two tosser drivers are to blame as well.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 10:40:36 GMT
Why are you looking to blame the mini bus driver for anything? Who says he wasn't driving safely? You know bog all about his thought process because you were not there. If the hard shoulder was there surely the polish wagon driver would not have been expected to be on it when he pulled up. If he has pulled up and avoided colliding with the wagon in the inside lane he his blameless, if an idiot in an hgv shunts him into the back of another stationary wagon that is nowt to do with him. Thats an easy one Martin if you had ever been a professional driver [ I held both a PCV full and a HGV class one license] Gosh, stands back in awe......
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Post by lollygagger on Feb 23, 2018 11:19:03 GMT
Professional drivers - meaningless. We've all seen them driving like arseholes, on the phone, swaying across the carriageways etc. I'm not trying to say they are worse than us amateurs but they're no better, as complacent as the next person and far more likely to be driving while half asleep. I've never had to pull off a road because I dare not overtake an car that's swaying over two lanes, I've simply never seen it, but twice I've done just that rather than risk been swiped into the central reservation by a lorry.
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Post by peterboat on Feb 23, 2018 11:50:37 GMT
Professional drivers - meaningless. We've all seen them driving like arseholes, on the phone, swaying across the carriageways etc. I'm not trying to say they are worse than us amateurs but they're no better, as complacent as the next person and far more likely to be driving while half asleep. I've never had to pull off a road because I dare not overtake an car that's swaying over two lanes, I've simply never seen it, but twice I've done just that rather than risk been swiped into the central reservation by a lorry. I have seen cars wandering all over the place at times and caravans trying to overtake the car doing the towing! The problem is that some like foxy take it very serious for all the right reasons, and the driver of the minibus didnt because if he had we wouldnt be having this discussion
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Post by lollygagger on Feb 23, 2018 12:21:03 GMT
Professional drivers - meaningless. We've all seen them driving like arseholes, on the phone, swaying across the carriageways etc. I'm not trying to say they are worse than us amateurs but they're no better, as complacent as the next person and far more likely to be driving while half asleep. I've never had to pull off a road because I dare not overtake an car that's swaying over two lanes, I've simply never seen it, but twice I've done just that rather than risk been swiped into the central reservation by a lorry. I have seen cars wandering all over the place at times and caravans trying to overtake the car doing the towing! The problem is that some like foxy take it very serious for all the right reasons, and the driver of the minibus didnt because if he had we wouldnt be having this discussion The sad thing is the mistakes cost lives. I would guess the minibus driver was the type of driver who only looks in his mirror when he wants to pull out. If it's clear he pulls out, if not he waits for a gap. Normally this lazy, unaware driving style "works", but with a stationary vehicle he ran out of gap waiting time and ground to a halt. The same kind of driver stops at roundabouts before looking to see if there's anything coming? The same kind of driver who drives up your arse in the middle lane when the outer lane is clear, preferring to wait for miles until you pull into the slow lane? Maybe the last type is simply too scared of changing lanes more than the once to get into the middle lane.
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Post by lollygagger on Feb 23, 2018 12:27:47 GMT
There are unfortunately a lot of drivers out there who are either crap, scared, uninterested in what they're doing etc. It's a fact. Some simply don't know they're shite. A lady friend of mine who drove taxis for years, was unable to drive without accelerating or braking. Cruising was never witnessed. I used to take the mick and ask her to try driving at say a steady 50mph. She just couldn't do it, it wasn't that she drove aggressively or that she was in a hurry. She rated herself as a good driver.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:15:36 GMT
Professional drivers - meaningless. We've all seen them driving like arseholes, on the phone, swaying across the carriageways etc. I'm not trying to say they are worse than us amateurs but they're no better, as complacent as the next person and far more likely to be driving while half asleep. I've never had to pull off a road because I dare not overtake an car that's swaying over two lanes, I've simply never seen it, but twice I've done just that rather than risk been swiped into the central reservation by a lorry. I have seen cars wandering all over the place at times and caravans trying to overtake the car doing the towing! The problem is that some like foxy take it very serious for all the right reasons, and the driver of the minibus didnt because if he had we wouldnt be having this discussion The difference though is the consequences of driving a bloody great atric badly are much greater than then somebody driving a car or a car/caravan combination badly. Normally caravans disintegrate on impact as they are very lightly constructed and have much less potential to kill people than a fully loaded HGV ploughing into the back of you. It does raise the question though about qualifications to drive a mini bus. I can for example drive a minibus that carries up to 16 passengers (cat D1) - that is without any additional training, though of course that is via. grandfather rights, I presume this is different for newer drivers (I haven't checked). But then even with additional training it wont make a lot of difference if the driver does not apply it in practice.
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Post by peterboat on Feb 23, 2018 14:55:02 GMT
I have seen cars wandering all over the place at times and caravans trying to overtake the car doing the towing! The problem is that some like foxy take it very serious for all the right reasons, and the driver of the minibus didnt because if he had we wouldnt be having this discussion The difference though is the consequences of driving a bloody great atric badly are much greater than then somebody driving a car or a car/caravan combination badly. Normally caravans disintegrate on impact as they are very lightly constructed and have much less potential to kill people than a fully loaded HGV ploughing into the back of you. It does raise the question though about qualifications to drive a mini bus. I can for example drive a minibus that carries up to 16 passengers (cat D1) - that is without any additional training, though of course that is via. grandfather rights, I presume this is different for newer drivers (I haven't checked). But then even with additional training it wont make a lot of difference if the driver does not apply it in practice. Not for profit, and had a license for over two years, and over the age of 21 seems to be the rules.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 15:58:50 GMT
Please remind me of this if you ever offer to give me a lift. I'll bring my sleeping bag and sleep on the back seat - hope my snoring will not distract you.
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 23, 2018 16:09:09 GMT
Thats an easy one Martin if you had ever been a professional driver [ I held both a PCV full and a HGV class one license] Gosh, stands back in awe...... The 18-metre long buses I drove in Helsinki could carry 130 passengers. No-one was injured during my 21 years doing that, unless some of my sarcastic remarks got to them.
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 23, 2018 16:15:11 GMT
Please remind me of this if you ever offer to give me a lift. I'll bring my sleeping bag and sleep on the back seat - hope my snoring will not distract you. In the box, Donkey.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 16:20:58 GMT
But could you cope with my eyeoring? If not never drive buses again.
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Post by Graham on Feb 23, 2018 16:29:07 GMT
if the driver lessens the pressure on the throttle the vehicle slows. Fitted as standard to every car and motorbike since approx 1890! 🙄🙄 But no speed limit built in except the ability of the vehicle.
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Post by Graham on Feb 23, 2018 16:40:30 GMT
Can't agree Bodger, cruise control is dangerous, it sets a speed and the vehicle does not drop below that speed. It should be replace with a variable limiter which sets a top speed and if the driver lessens the pressure on the throttle the vehicle slows. One is a projectile which unless the driver consciously brakes will continue at the set speed for ever not matter what is in the way. The other requires the vehicle to be drive limiting only the top speed, thus if the driver's attention wanders pressure comes off the throttle and the vehicle slows. Having both on my vehicle I never use cruise control always use the limiter, which means that speed limits are observed and I do not have to concentrate on that and allows more concentration to be used on the rest of the task of driving. Modern cruise control can slow the vehicle down and stop the vehicle! but only on certain vehicles and if its used, so in lots of cases cruise control is safer. The real problem was the stupid tosser that decided drink driving is safe and the minibus driver that didnt drive safely, I mean he could have gone onto the hard shoulder to avoid the crash couldnt he? or was the hard shoulder missing as so often the case nowdays The Traffic Legislation requires you must be able to stop without hitting anything if the vehicle in front stops or the road becomes block. The accident was the fault of the driver in the Fedex vehicle the other two vehicles had stopped. So Fedex had two options one to stop before hitting the two vehicles to to go round them if the conditions allowed. The driver of the other HGV committed the offence of being drunk in charge of a vehicle, the minibus driver committed no offence. I will be interested in the jury's verdict, there is just a chance the Fedex driver will go down for dangerous etc and the other driver will just get drunk in charge, because the vehicle was stationary and had been for a little while. The defences will be interesting.
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Post by bodger on Feb 23, 2018 16:44:56 GMT
WTF are you driving on UK motorways when 95% of the traffic is travelling at a steady speed, No it isn't - it's changing all the time, there's something happening every second. I find it a lot of work to drive up the M6 / M4 / M1 / M25 - morons, morons, morons everywhere! Overtaking and then swerving in front of you because they want to go up the ramp! Everyone driving far too fast because they 'are so important' and and probably 'saving the planet' or they have just discovered the cure for cancer and are rushing to patent it. Just look at the lack of safe space between vehicles - this tells you straight away that it's a minefield of idiots.
Well, that's my view. One only has to look at a few videos of 'UK car crashes' or 'UK road rage' on YouTube to see that driving licences are issued not on the basis of competency but because oil companies want to make big profits so we need to get the chavs and zombies out there driving their cars. Most people don't make even the most basic precursory check of their vehicle before setting off (tyre pressures, windows clear, heating and fan adequate, screenwash, etc.).that reminds me of the Swinton insurance advert on TV. paranoid, with doubts lurking around every corner. you must be knackered after a day at wheel. what's your blood pressure like? I learnt, about a million miles ago, at least half of which was spent on motorways, usually at peak times, to relax and to pay attention at the same time with the result that I didn't arrive at my destination like a shivering damp rag. Touch wood, no incidents whatsoever. ............... oh, and I don't recognise the scenarios you describe as 'happening every second'. As has been said, conscious defensive driving will obviate the need for sudden and unplanned evasive action to avoid the consequences of most of the 'unexpected' actions of the morons.
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