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Post by Clinton Cool on Mar 27, 2018 22:54:18 GMT
Headline news is that fire crews didn't arrive at the scene of the Manchester terror incident last year until 2 hours and 6 minutes had elapsed, following the idiot detonating his bomb. Usual fire service standard is 6 minutes.
There was an interview on the radio with the assistant chief of the fire service this afternoon. She explained what happened:
Apparently; protocol states that there are a series of yes/no questions, the answers to each determines the action the service takes. One of the questions: is there a bomb? Because the answer was 'yes', the service held off going in to help with the rescue. They stayed 500 yards from the scene instead. This seems to be a policy to protect the fire fighters, to ensure their safety.
The assistant chief went on to explain that if the question had been 'is there a bomb' followed by 'has it gone off' and the answer had been 'yes', the service would have been there immediately. But protocol didn't include the latter question.
So, following these protocols, we can deduce that the Manchester fire and rescue service would not attend any incident when a bomb was involved, whether it had gone off or not.
I find it quite startling that senior figures in the service couldn't see that this protocol was flawed. I know it's easy to say this after the event but when senior employees, highly paid, write a system to clearly and fundamentally flawed, to the extent that a child would be able to devise something better, their heads should roll.
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Post by thebfg on Mar 28, 2018 3:13:24 GMT
It was my understanding confusion from the old bill caused the delay.
I see it was not the case. I did see they were fuming because they had specialists guys on the outer corden that could of helped with first aid and stuff.
I did note that they refused to lay any blame on the fire brigade for any deaths that could of been prevented had they been there. That will be for the inquiry to decide.
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Post by naughtyfox on Mar 28, 2018 4:14:32 GMT
It's all part(s) and parcel of living in a big city, as a certain Mayor (allegedly) said.
The Fire Brigade didn't cause the incident, so why blame them?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 7:28:06 GMT
At historical incidents management of emergency services have permitted staff to attend at scenes, where they have been killed on arrival.
Management being criticised subsequently, come up with policies for 'safe rendezvous' sites for their people.
It must be a very difficult balance to strike, between getting staff on scene, but not recklessly endangering their lives.
They got it wrong at Manchester (Fire service).
Hopefully lessons will be learned.
The 'blame' still lies at the feet of the dispicable excuse for humanity who perpetrated the horror.
Rog
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Post by bodger on Mar 28, 2018 7:49:48 GMT
The 'blame' still lies at the feet of the dispicable excuse for humanity who perpetrated the horror. I am not naturally an apologist for the forces of lawlessness and disorder, but would it be fair to say that the blame for the current wave of violence, most of which is inspired by so-called I.S., lies at the feet of George Dubya and Tony Bliar? I sometimes let my mind wander and ponder how I would feel if I was young and impressionable, and a foreign state used overwhelming and apparently indiscriminate force when intervening in a civil war or the actions of a cruel dictator in my country - I would not necessarily be aware of the background of international terrorism enacted by the likes of Al Qaeda, and even if I was aware I would hardly link it with the use of drones and guided missiles, and I would surely resent and grow to see the interveners as the devil incarnate. Fertile ground for the production of young suicide bombers sent to foreign cities to wreak their vengeance. How will future generations write the history of the current conflicts? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 8:00:39 GMT
No...of course you're right....because there was never any violence in the world until the end of the twentieth century.
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 9:16:31 GMT
Just finished skim reading the actual report (I have an old professional interest in these type of incidents). Report can be found here www.kerslakearenareview.co.uk/media/1022/kerslake_arena_review_printed_final.pdf Paragraphs 5.116 to 5.168 Pages 156 to 169 give the most details on the Fire Service response and are likely to give much better info than any press snippet. My view - Very roughly the problem was caused more by the fact that the Fire Service didn't almost immediately have staff on site (where as the police and ambulance service did), this meant confusion over whether there was a Marauding Active Shooter present more complex for the Fire Service, combine this with the fact that the Police and the Fire Service protocols were not sufficiently aligned and quite a few other issues (which are fairly normal during major incidents) such as communication problems with staff being unable to cope with the volume of calls, and I can see how the late response to scene happened. I strongly don't think the late response was due to people blindly following a protocol. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 9:29:47 GMT
The 'blame' still lies at the feet of the dispicable excuse for humanity who perpetrated the horror. I am not naturally an apologist for the forces of lawlessness and disorder, but would it be fair to say that the blame for the current wave of violence, most of which is inspired by so-called I.S., lies at the feet of George Dubya and Tony Bliar? I sometimes let my mind wander and ponder how I would feel if I was young and impressionable, and a foreign state used overwhelming and apparently indiscriminate force when intervening in a civil war or the actions of a cruel dictator in my country - I would not necessarily be aware of the background of international terrorism enacted by the likes of Al Qaeda, and even if I was aware I would hardly link it with the use of drones and guided missiles, and I would surely resent and grow to see the interveners as the devil incarnate. Fertile ground for the production of young suicide bombers sent to foreign cities to wreak their vengeance. How will future generations write the history of the current conflicts? That's exactly what I said after the 11th September plane attacks. The west is perfectly happy to use Cruise Missiles. The "enemy" don't have them so they used Crewed Missiles instead. Its all part of war. If someone was showering my country with missiles and other ordnance I would want to get over there and kill their people. Its just logical. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 10:12:20 GMT
Words fail me.
A pop concert for teenage girls.
Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Mar 28, 2018 11:06:46 GMT
Words fail me. A pop concert for teenage girls. Rog So no teenage girls have been killed by US and UK military action then? Or by those regimes propped up by UK and/or our weapons customers? |
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Post by Mr Stabby on Mar 28, 2018 11:17:24 GMT
Words fail me. A pop concert for teenage girls. Rog So no teenage girls have been killed by US and UK military action then? Or by those regimes propped up by UK and/or our weapons customers? But the point is this. In Britain in WW2, Germans were interned, we didn't invite millions of them in to walk among us. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 11:27:36 GMT
So should the UK intern all Muslims?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 11:28:29 GMT
Teen age girls at a pop concert in Manchester WERE THE SOLE TARGET.
Not innocent bystanders or collateral damage or any other of the distasteful descriptions used for such acts.
The single innocent target.
Why is it that when men seek to justify acts of violence, it's always the innocent that get hurt.
Rog
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