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Post by tadworth on Oct 28, 2016 16:39:28 GMT
Reply i receiced on 24 October that states clearly the trust will breach its statutory duty and break the law unless i agree to their faux contract.
"Mr [ Tadworth ] As you are aware (because it has been confirmed more than once in writing to you over the last few months), the Trust is entitled to make use of its waterways subject to such terms and conditions as we think fit, by virtue of section 43 of the Transport Act 1962. Nevertheless, I understand you have contacted my colleagues to say you refused to accept or be bound by the licence terms and conditions at the time you applied for your boat licence earlier in the year, and you have re-stated that this is still your position more recently. Unfortunately, whilst I can confirm that the person who processed your licence application has a different recollection to yourself, the call was not recorded so it has not been possible to verify exactly what was said. That being the case, and if I accept what you say that you insisted from the outset you refused to accept the terms and conditions of the licence, I can only assume the licence was issued in error and I will cancel it. Clearly you will not be able to validly obtain a licence in future without agreeing to our terms and conditions either, because we do not issue licences without terms and conditions attached. Alternatively, you can continue boating with the licence you have been issued, in which case you will be deemed to accept the licence terms and conditions by allowing your boat to remain on our waterways. To be clear, if you refuse to accepted the licence terms and conditions, you must leave our waterways. Please let me know which of the above two options you prefer. To avoid any confusion in future, with the exception of emergencies I must ask you to only contact the Trust through me, in writing, in which case I will liaise with the appropriate colleagues if it is not something I usually deal with myself.
Peter Palmer Enforcement supervisor"
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Post by junior on Oct 28, 2016 16:47:38 GMT
Regardless of who is right and wrong, unless you are planning to break the T&C's it must be easier all round just to agree to them, no?
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Post by lollygagger on Oct 28, 2016 17:00:03 GMT
This is an easy one. Tick the box, then follow the law and argue with crt if you have to. I've spent my life ticking such boxes without even reading the attached conditions. I have a CRT licence but haven't read the t&c's. I admire your keeness to bang your head on the wall though, maybe you have nothing better to do. I used to be a squatter and never had any bother. Others seemed to have to rub it in and ended up fighting the police. I prefer the easy life, it's what I want to do that matters, not what anyone else thinks of my choices, which hopefully they would never know I made in the first place.
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Post by JohnV on Oct 28, 2016 17:00:07 GMT
You are always supposed to ask permission to step on someone else's boat. If no-one at home and you need to, do it with respect and cause no damage. Anyone who boards our boat without the OK will be leaving minus their teeth. The last time I crossed someone's (unoccupied) boat I gave it the same respect I would give any other wanker that blocked access to a waterpoint
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Post by loafer on Oct 28, 2016 17:03:16 GMT
I hate people who tie up for the night on lock landings too. Especially when I've tied up immediately adjacent, in the sure knowledge that no noisy twat will moor next door!
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Post by PaulG2 on Oct 28, 2016 17:06:35 GMT
Regardless of who is right and wrong, unless you are planning to break the T&C's it must be easier all round just to agree to them, no? Probably, but where would this world be if it weren't for those people willing to stand up when they think something is wrong? Tadworth's problem is that CRT knows that the only thing that is going to make them change their stance on their T&Cs is a major adverse court decision, and they are probably pretty sure that Tadworth doesn't have a few hundred thousand quid to throw at a Law Firm to accomplish that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 17:40:44 GMT
This is an easy one. Tick the box, then follow the law and argue with crt if you have to. I've spent my life ticking such boxes without even reading the attached conditions. I have a CRT licence but haven't read the t&c's. I admire your keeness to bang your head on the wall though, maybe you have nothing better to do. I used to be a squatter and never had any bother. Others seemed to have to rub it in and ended up fighting the police. I prefer the easy life, it's what I want to do that matters, not what anyone else thinks of my choices, which hopefully they would never know I made in the first place. This is good advice. I think most of us tick boxes without reading or understanding what we have 'agreed' to. If CRT ever take you to court over breaking a made up T&C, so long as you were not breaking the law, you could argue in court that you were threatened into ticking the box under duress. Many of the T&C's are there to encourage us to share the system fairly because some people do take the piss. Unfortunately many people don't see those who use their status and money to manipulate CRT as piss takers.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 28, 2016 20:29:38 GMT
Reply i receiced on 24 October that states clearly the trust will breach its statutory duty and break the law unless i agree to their faux contract. "Mr [ Tadworth ] As you are aware (because it has been confirmed more than once in writing to you over the last few months), the Trust is entitled to make use of its waterways subject to such terms and conditions as we think fit, by virtue of section 43 of the Transport Act 1962. Nevertheless, I understand you have contacted my colleagues to say you refused to accept or be bound by the licence terms and conditions at the time you applied for your boat licence earlier in the year, and you have re-stated that this is still your position more recently. Unfortunately, whilst I can confirm that the person who processed your licence application has a different recollection to yourself, the call was not recorded so it has not been possible to verify exactly what was said. That being the case, and if I accept what you say that you insisted from the outset you refused to accept the terms and conditions of the licence, I can only assume the licence was issued in error and I will cancel it. Clearly you will not be able to validly obtain a licence in future without agreeing to our terms and conditions either, because we do not issue licences without terms and conditions attached. Alternatively, you can continue boating with the licence you have been issued, in which case you will be deemed to accept the licence terms and conditions by allowing your boat to remain on our waterways. To be clear, if you refuse to accepted the licence terms and conditions, you must leave our waterways. Please let me know which of the above two options you prefer. To avoid any confusion in future, with the exception of emergencies I must ask you to only contact the Trust through me, in writing, in which case I will liaise with the appropriate colleagues if it is not something I usually deal with myself. Peter Palmer Enforcement supervisor" This under-occupied twerp, Palmer, lost this argument earlier this year, but it appears that he's so short of real and worthwhile things to do that he's decided to dig it up and try it out again, . . . perhaps hoping to find something to occupy the three new lawyers that C&RT have recently taken on. The only value in this ill-considered missive is in being kept on record for possible future use as supporting evidence of C&RT's readiness to operate in disregard and contempt of statute. In all other respects, it isn't worthy of attention, and most certainly should NOT be allowed to become influential in persuading applicants for Boat Licences or PBC's to tick that box agreeing to the Licence T&C's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 20:35:45 GMT
Reply i receiced on 24 October that states clearly the trust will breach its statutory duty and break the law unless i agree to their faux contract. "Mr [ Tadworth ] As you are aware (because it has been confirmed more than once in writing to you over the last few months), the Trust is entitled to make use of its waterways subject to such terms and conditions as we think fit, by virtue of section 43 of the Transport Act 1962. Nevertheless, I understand you have contacted my colleagues to say you refused to accept or be bound by the licence terms and conditions at the time you applied for your boat licence earlier in the year, and you have re-stated that this is still your position more recently. Unfortunately, whilst I can confirm that the person who processed your licence application has a different recollection to yourself, the call was not recorded so it has not been possible to verify exactly what was said. That being the case, and if I accept what you say that you insisted from the outset you refused to accept the terms and conditions of the licence, I can only assume the licence was issued in error and I will cancel it. Clearly you will not be able to validly obtain a licence in future without agreeing to our terms and conditions either, because we do not issue licences without terms and conditions attached. Alternatively, you can continue boating with the licence you have been issued, in which case you will be deemed to accept the licence terms and conditions by allowing your boat to remain on our waterways. To be clear, if you refuse to accepted the licence terms and conditions, you must leave our waterways. Please let me know which of the above two options you prefer. To avoid any confusion in future, with the exception of emergencies I must ask you to only contact the Trust through me, in writing, in which case I will liaise with the appropriate colleagues if it is not something I usually deal with myself. Peter Palmer Enforcement supervisor" This under-occupied twerp, Palmer, lost this argument earlier this year, but it appears that he's so short of real and worthwhile things to do that he's decided to dig it up and try it out again, . . . perhaps hoping to find something to occupy the three new lawyers that C&RT have recently taken on. The only value in this ill-considered missive is in being kept on record for possible future use as supporting evidence of C&RT's readiness to operate in disregard and contempt of statute. In all other respects, it isn't worthy of attention, and most certainly should NOT be allowed to become influential in persuading applicants for Boat Licences or PBC's to tick that box agreeing to the Licence T&C's. Can I put this on me Web page?
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tuscan
Junior Member
Posts: 14
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Post by tuscan on Oct 28, 2016 21:09:59 GMT
Reply i receiced on 24 October that states clearly the trust will breach its statutory duty and break the law unless i agree to their faux contract. "Mr [ Tadworth ] As you are aware (because it has been confirmed more than once in writing to you over the last few months), the Trust is entitled to make use of its waterways subject to such terms and conditions as we think fit, by virtue of section 43 of the Transport Act 1962. Nevertheless, I understand you have contacted my colleagues to say you refused to accept or be bound by the licence terms and conditions at the time you applied for your boat licence earlier in the year, and you have re-stated that this is still your position more recently. Unfortunately, whilst I can confirm that the person who processed your licence application has a different recollection to yourself, the call was not recorded so it has not been possible to verify exactly what was said. That being the case, and if I accept what you say that you insisted from the outset you refused to accept the terms and conditions of the licence, I can only assume the licence was issued in error and I will cancel it. Clearly you will not be able to validly obtain a licence in future without agreeing to our terms and conditions either, because we do not issue licences without terms and conditions attached. Alternatively, you can continue boating with the licence you have been issued, in which case you will be deemed to accept the licence terms and conditions by allowing your boat to remain on our waterways. To be clear, if you refuse to accepted the licence terms and conditions, you must leave our waterways. Please let me know which of the above two options you prefer. To avoid any confusion in future, with the exception of emergencies I must ask you to only contact the Trust through me, in writing, in which case I will liaise with the appropriate colleagues if it is not something I usually deal with myself. Peter Palmer Enforcement supervisor"
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tuscan
Junior Member
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Post by tuscan on Oct 28, 2016 21:10:51 GMT
Suggest you tick the box and add
"agreement to these Terms and Conditions does not absolve either party from complying with any relevant law or Act of Parliament governing the canals and rivers administered by the Trust."
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 28, 2016 21:18:33 GMT
This under-occupied twerp, Palmer, lost this argument earlier this year, but it appears that he's so short of real and worthwhile things to do that he's decided to dig it up and try it out again, . . . perhaps hoping to find something to occupy the three new lawyers that C&RT have recently taken on. The only value in this ill-considered missive is in being kept on record for possible future use as supporting evidence of C&RT's readiness to operate in disregard and contempt of statute. In all other respects, it isn't worthy of attention, and most certainly should NOT be allowed to become influential in persuading applicants for Boat Licences or PBC's to tick that box agreeing to the Licence T&C's. Can I put this on me Web page? Yes, please do Steve, . . . I'm quite happy for anything I write or publish to be reproduced anywhere where it might help to get the message across about not knuckling under to any of C&RT's nonsense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 21:21:10 GMT
Can I put this on me Web page? Yes, please do Steve, . . . I'm quite happy for anything I write or publish to be reproduced anywhere where it might help to get the message across about not knuckling under to any of C&RT's nonsense. Cheers. 😎😎
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Post by tadworth on Oct 28, 2016 22:01:22 GMT
I found the last paragraph of the reply interesting. Sounds like Mr Palmer doesn't want anyone else to know what he's doing ?
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 28, 2016 22:16:35 GMT
I found the last paragraph of the reply interesting. Sounds like Mr Palmer doesn't want anyone else to know what he's doing ? I would think it more likely that he's been told to conclude the letter with words that create that impression, so the pond life that slithers about slightly above him can distance themselves from it when it all goes wrong.
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