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Post by Telemachus on Sept 9, 2016 20:20:16 GMT
The fundamental problem is that more people want to live in London than can be accommodated. That makes the price of buying or renting extortionate (and our fondness for selling our housing stock to non-domiciled foreigners doesn't help). So next step is to exploit the canal resource for overflow housing but once again, it is a limited resource and more people want to live on the canals of London than can reasonably be accommodated. If you make more moorings and ease the difficulties, more people will come to fill the space and the result will be an identical situation with more boats. Unfortunately the only way that the canals can continue to be available for navigation is to limit the number of residential boats and reserve some moorings for people who want to use the canals for the original purpose of navigating. So I'm sorry but your utopian idea just wouldn't work. Same old bollocks. Jenlyn is right about you and furthermore you are stuck in the same rhetoric because you don't take on board other peoples experience. You are so cock sure of yourself, you can't see the wood for the trees. Other than that, you're Ok really...but only because you can fly. Same old bollocks - yes I've only ever had two and, being quite attached to them I don't think I want to change them. jenlyn has never been right about anything much, especially me. He is not even right about his own name! oh but I do take on board other people's experiences. Some say London is a complete no go area for leisure boating. And some say you can just about do it but it is pretty congested. I haven't heard anybody say there are swathes of vacant moorings in London, plenty of rubbish and water point availability etc. So taking on board all the reported experiences I'd say that it is feasible to visit London but a bit stressful to find a mooring in a specific vicinity. I'd rather pay £10 (although I did say to CRT that it should be £5!) to be able to relax in the confidence of having a reserved mooring. If you don't want to do that - fine, you can squeeze up 3 abreast with all the permanent residents. yes I am sure of myself, and no I probably can't see the wood for the trees but since we burn coal it doesn't really matter.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2016 20:24:50 GMT
this would be better, but it isn't what Crt are proposing. Charging for visitor moorings is the thin end of the wedge, it's the introduction of a two tier canal system. Those with money can, those with less money can't. But all life in non-communist countries is like that. You can't have everything you want unless you can pay for it. Someone with lots of money can afford a couple of nice boats. Somebody with no money can't afford to buy a boat at all, get a licence, buy diesel etc. We live in a capitalist country. There is already a multi-tiered canal system. If you want to live in a communist one you'll have to emigrate (trying to think where to, since all the communist states I can think of have failed). China, North Korea, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam. I wonder what the leisure boating scene is like in those places...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2016 20:45:17 GMT
Same old bollocks. Jenlyn is right about you and furthermore you are stuck in the same rhetoric because you don't take on board other peoples experience. You are so cock sure of yourself, you can't see the wood for the trees. Other than that, you're Ok really...but only because you can fly. Same old bollocks - yes I've only ever had two and, being quite attached to them I don't think I want to change them. jenlyn has never been right about anything much, especially me. He is not even right about his own name! oh but I do take on board other people's experiences. Some say London is a complete no go area for leisure boating. And some say you can just about do it but it is pretty congested. I haven't heard anybody say there are swathes of vacant moorings in London, plenty of rubbish and water point availability etc. So taking on board all the reported experiences I'd say that it is feasible to visit London but a bit stressful to find a mooring in a specific vicinity. I'd rather pay £10 (although I did say to CRT that it should be £5!) to be able to relax in the confidence of having a reserved mooring. If you don't want to do that - fine, you can squeeze up 3 abreast with all the permanent residents. yes I am sure of myself, and no I probably can't see the wood for the trees but since we burn coal it doesn't really matter. Nick, by your own admission, you are basing your comments on other peoples experience. Jenlyn and myself, to a lesser degree, have personal experience of mooring in London. It can be hit and miss at times, but then again it's the same with many popular spots all around the country. CWF is full of heresay, let's try to keep this forum real with real experiences please. I for one am fed up with bullshit.
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Post by jimcheese on Sept 9, 2016 20:59:02 GMT
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Post by Graham on Sept 9, 2016 21:01:29 GMT
Yep very lucky worked hard took the knocks and recovered and learnt to enjoy life. Oh dear we are touchy because someone suggest it has been happening for a lot longer than you suggested by using 50 years. I have a suspicion that people have been using boats as their main home since the 1500 or thereabouts, but can't be bothered to check. Suffice to say I believe it was going on before the English canals were dug. CRT in my opinion are like a lot of large organisations, trying to twist the law to their advantage. Now whether they are right or not, is not for me to decide. However I think they have pushed way past the acceptable twist point. The Courts will decide and with a bit of luck that they have twisted things to their benefit further than they should have. That all depends on the two cases going on at the moment. If CRT lose it would not surprise me if CRT attempted to get the Act changed. Personally I do not think Parliament will allow it. However that will leave the law as it stands, so until someone take CRT to Court and gets a definition of bonafide cruising. Have ypou got £50,000 available to pay for the case. ...don't need to find £50,000 myself. There are plenty of boaters out there who will help crowd fund it. Then there are the multitude of bankers who don't want to see their retirement dream disappear. Those driving CRT don't know the half of it...or who they are dealing with on the cut. Some, who served this country well, I wouldn't want to mess with. Sounds as if you are trying to threaten me, are you? If the money is there available then why has action not been taken in the courts against CRT. The failure to act makes me suspect your remarks are hot air.
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Post by loafer on Sept 9, 2016 21:01:49 GMT
The two at Rembandt were created from ex CaRT reserved spots so no net mooring loss. (I have used them). If all new bookable moorings <in crowded locations only> were created (no net mooring loss) would that not be a decent thing? The dosh raised going to offset costs. this would be better, but it isn't what Crt are proposing. Charging for visitor moorings is the thin end of the wedge, it's the introduction of a two tier canal system. Those with money can, those with less money can't. That's been the way of the world for a very long time!
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Post by jimcheese on Sept 9, 2016 21:04:13 GMT
The two at Rembandt were created from ex CaRT reserved spots so no net mooring loss. (I have used them). If all new bookable moorings <in crowded locations only> were created (no net mooring loss) would that not be a decent thing? The dosh raised going to offset costs. this would be better, but it isn't what Crt are proposing. Charging for visitor moorings is the thin end of the wedge, it's the introduction of a two tier canal system. Those with money can, those with less money can't. Well this is what CaRT said "Taking this into account we’re planning to trial pre-bookable short-stay mooring spots at Rembrandt Gardens in Little Venice later in the year. We will be announcing more details soon" Both these mooring as said were created.
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Post by Telemachus on Sept 9, 2016 22:04:57 GMT
Same old bollocks - yes I've only ever had two and, being quite attached to them I don't think I want to change them. jenlyn has never been right about anything much, especially me. He is not even right about his own name! oh but I do take on board other people's experiences. Some say London is a complete no go area for leisure boating. And some say you can just about do it but it is pretty congested. I haven't heard anybody say there are swathes of vacant moorings in London, plenty of rubbish and water point availability etc. So taking on board all the reported experiences I'd say that it is feasible to visit London but a bit stressful to find a mooring in a specific vicinity. I'd rather pay £10 (although I did say to CRT that it should be £5!) to be able to relax in the confidence of having a reserved mooring. If you don't want to do that - fine, you can squeeze up 3 abreast with all the permanent residents. yes I am sure of myself, and no I probably can't see the wood for the trees but since we burn coal it doesn't really matter. Nick, by your own admission, you are basing your comments on other peoples experience. Jenlyn and myself, to a lesser degree, have personal experience of mooring in London. It can be hit and miss at times, but then again it's the same with many popular spots all around the country. CWF is full of heresay, let's try to keep this forum real with real experiences please. I for one am fed up with bullshit. I think you miss the point. The reality is not relevant, it is how it is perceived that is relevant, since it is my perception that will determine where I go cruising. So regardless of the reality I am put off visiting London again by boat. Perhaps that is wrong, perhaps not, I have your word against quite a few opposing words. And a memory of wall to wall boats near Islington a couple of years ago. Who should I believe? But never mind, my dilemma can be resolved by CRT's initiative to provide pre-bookable moorings. Sorted.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2016 23:01:31 GMT
Nick, by your own admission, you are basing your comments on other peoples experience. Jenlyn and myself, to a lesser degree, have personal experience of mooring in London. It can be hit and miss at times, but then again it's the same with many popular spots all around the country. CWF is full of heresay, let's try to keep this forum real with real experiences please. I for one am fed up with bullshit. I think you miss the point. The reality is not relevant, it is how it is perceived that is relevant, since it is my perception that will determine where I go cruising. So regardless of the reality I am put off visiting London again by boat. Perhaps that is wrong, perhaps not, I have your word against quite a few opposing words. And a memory of wall to wall boats near Islington a couple of years ago. Who should I believe? But never mind, my dilemma can be resolved by CRT's initiative to provide pre-bookable moorings. Sorted.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 6:52:39 GMT
...don't need to find £50,000 myself. There are plenty of boaters out there who will help crowd fund it. Then there are the multitude of bankers who don't want to see their retirement dream disappear. Those driving CRT don't know the half of it...or who they are dealing with on the cut. Some, who served this country well, I wouldn't want to mess with. Sounds as if you are trying to threaten me, are you? If the money is there available then why has action not been taken in the courts against CRT. The failure to act makes me suspect your remarks are hot air. People normally react when things go too far. Hopefully CRT will see sense and not push things too far. I'm curious, why did you take my post to be a personal threat? There are all walks of life living on the cut. What was/is yours? I was an engineer most of my life. Although I try to abide by CRT's made up rules and signs, in their own way they are threatening and cause unnecessary stress. The fact that moorings with £25 per night'overstay' charges are avoided by many boaters shows they are worried about being charged if something unplanned happens. There is also the fear of ending up on CRT's radar due to a logging system which is unfit for purpose. Some boaters have been incorrectly flagged as having overstayed when they were on a journey and returned to the same mooring site many weeks later on tbe way back. The waterways are one of the few places in this country people can escape to and relax. The law is not that complicated when it comes to using them. I think the trouble is that some in CRT feel they have to justify their job by creating unnecessary rules.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 7:01:48 GMT
Nick, by your own admission, you are basing your comments on other peoples experience. Jenlyn and myself, to a lesser degree, have personal experience of mooring in London. It can be hit and miss at times, but then again it's the same with many popular spots all around the country. CWF is full of heresay, let's try to keep this forum real with real experiences please. I for one am fed up with bullshit. I think you miss the point. The reality is not relevant, it is how it is perceived that is relevant, since it is my perception that will determine where I go cruising. So regardless of the reality I am put off visiting London again by boat. Perhaps that is wrong, perhaps not, I have your word against quite a few opposing words. And a memory of wall to wall boats near Islington a couple of years ago. Who should I believe? But never mind, my dilemma can be resolved by CRT's initiative to provide pre-bookable moorings. Sorted. "The reality is not relevant" This for me sums up a lot of our problems. It seems everyone is lost in a virtual world of their imagination half the time. That's why just taking a risk and getting out there and doing it for real is better. I also wonder whether some boaters use the perceived problems of mooring in London as an excuse not to go because maybe they think it's too scary.
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Post by Telemachus on Sept 10, 2016 8:27:08 GMT
I think you miss the point. The reality is not relevant, it is how it is perceived that is relevant, since it is my perception that will determine where I go cruising. So regardless of the reality I am put off visiting London again by boat. Perhaps that is wrong, perhaps not, I have your word against quite a few opposing words. And a memory of wall to wall boats near Islington a couple of years ago. Who should I believe? But never mind, my dilemma can be resolved by CRT's initiative to provide pre-bookable moorings. Sorted. "The reality is not relevant" This for me sums up a lot of our problems. It seems everyone is lost in a virtual world of their imagination half the time. That's human nature!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 8:52:28 GMT
"The reality is not relevant" This for me sums up a lot of our problems. It seems everyone is lost in a virtual world of their imagination half the time. That's human nature! Seems that way.
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Post by Graham on Sept 10, 2016 9:04:04 GMT
Sounds as if you are trying to threaten me, are you? If the money is there available then why has action not been taken in the courts against CRT. The failure to act makes me suspect your remarks are hot air. People normally react when things go too far. Hopefully CRT will see sense and not push things too far. I'm curious, why did you take my post to be a personal threat? Because the words you use were a threat to who I do not know "Some, who served this country well, I wouldn't want to mess with. " I think you have little understanding of human nature if things go to far the majority run and hide.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 9:34:57 GMT
People normally react when things go too far. Hopefully CRT will see sense and not push things too far. I'm curious, why did you take my post to be a personal threat? Because the words you use were a threat to who I do not know "Some, who served this country well, I wouldn't want to mess with. " I think you have little understanding of human nature if things go to far the majority run and hide. Yes, and hide behind anonymity. Are you in some way connected with those who run CRT or maybe pretending to be? You don't seem prepared to answer my question. When someone is threatened with losing their only home or is cornered, running and hiding may not be the only option they decide to take. What would you do?
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