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Post by JohnV on Apr 13, 2021 16:49:33 GMT
When petrol and diesel propulsion is finally banned in canal boats (I think someone said its 2050), the future boaters will be looking at how they get the maximum possible solar onto a narrowboat roof. I spoke to one guy who said he had 2.5kw of solar fitted on a 57ft narrowboat, but I dont know if even that would yield enough charge to cruise a boat every day. With widebeams you obviously have more roof area for panels. But if you had 2.5kw say, and you could only cruise every other day, or one day in three, that would still be better than not cruising at all. There are a lot of boaters who would simply be priced out of the lifestyle if they faced a mandatory £8k bill for an electric motor install (and that's without the batteries). So unless the cost of electric motors comes down a lot (which it might do, as more used ones become available), the numbers of narrowboats on the system will drop sharply in 2050. Perhaps people who want to cruise a lot will buy GRP boats, as they need less energy to move? Those happy to cruise every second or third day will stay in narrowboats, if they can afford the motor ad batteries. Tony my whole conversion was less than 8K! one of the advantages of lots of solar is that I have bought a 2 ring induction hobb, it sits on the Rayburn and is for summer use, its quick clean, gas free and makes sense when you have masses of solar and batteries. Microwave does some reheating and maybe I should have bought a combi version on reflection? the trouble with a combi version of anything is that when one bit goes down ..... you lose both
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 17:03:56 GMT
Tony my whole conversion was less than 8K! one of the advantages of lots of solar is that I have bought a 2 ring induction hobb, it sits on the Rayburn and is for summer use, its quick clean, gas free and makes sense when you have masses of solar and batteries. Microwave does some reheating and maybe I should have bought a combi version on reflection? In fairness though Peter, you're an experienced engineer with the knowledge to install an electric motor and batteries. At this point, I think that is a fairly rare thing, although more boaters will be willing to give it a try as time goes on. But all that said, I am looking at this future issue with too much of a 2021 perspective. The reality is that electric vehicles will become far more common over the next two decades, and people will get more familiar with the motors and batteries, so by the time 2050 comes, there will be plenty of used motors and batteries on the market, loads of people who will be able to do the install themselves, and plenty of professionals who will do it at an affordable price. Even the batteries will be more affordable, regardless of what the technology is at the time. At the moment, the prices I've seen online for electric motor narrowboat installs are simply ridiculous, but that will change. The other questions for me are: 1. how much solar can you get on a narrowboat roof? My panels are 660w, and even that 660w takes up about a third of the roof. 2. How much energy or charge (or how many Ah) would you need to gather from the solar, to cruise a narrowboat for say 6 hours? PS - on the combi thing, I personally would have to have a grill of some sort if I didnt have an oven, but preferably both. I spent two years with a microwave as my only cooking method, and I wouldnt want to do that again. I bet an electric oven would use a hell of a lot of energy, and a grill would be more economical, but ideally you'd want both.
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Post by JohnV on Apr 13, 2021 19:01:54 GMT
Tony my whole conversion was less than 8K! one of the advantages of lots of solar is that I have bought a 2 ring induction hobb, it sits on the Rayburn and is for summer use, its quick clean, gas free and makes sense when you have masses of solar and batteries. Microwave does some reheating and maybe I should have bought a combi version on reflection? I bet an electric oven would use a hell of a lot of energy, and a grill would be more economical, but ideally you'd want both. the little mini oven/grills you can buy from places like Argos for round about £40 use around 1500 watts.
I use one quite a lot. I only use the big oven when cooking a roast or the like.
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Post by metanoia on Apr 13, 2021 19:08:19 GMT
I bet an electric oven would use a hell of a lot of energy, and a grill would be more economical, but ideally you'd want both. the little mini oven/grills you can buy from places like Argos for round about £40 use around 1500 watts.
I use one quite a lot. I only use the big oven when cooking a roast or the like.
... but how was tonight's duck? Apologies - will disappear now (but sincerely hope it was good!!) x Permission to post still pending approval ............
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Post by JohnV on Apr 13, 2021 19:18:18 GMT
the little mini oven/grills you can buy from places like Argos for round about £40 use around 1500 watts.
I use one quite a lot. I only use the big oven when cooking a roast or the like.
... but how was tonight's duck? excellent thankyou. Dusted with salt/pepper/Chinese 5 spice roasted long and slow and 30 minutes from the end drizzled with honey.
with mashed potato, purple sprouting brocolli and chard served with a giblet gravy with redcurrent.
(brocolli and chard from my sisters garden)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 19:26:43 GMT
... but how was tonight's duck? excellent thankyou. Dusted with salt/pepper/Chinese 5 spice roasted long and slow and 30 minutes from the end drizzled with honey.
with mashed potato, purple sprouting brocolli and chard served with a giblet gravy with redcurrent.
(brocolli and chard from my sisters garden)
Pig...😂🤣
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Post by peterboat on Apr 13, 2021 19:34:39 GMT
Tony my whole conversion was less than 8K! one of the advantages of lots of solar is that I have bought a 2 ring induction hobb, it sits on the Rayburn and is for summer use, its quick clean, gas free and makes sense when you have masses of solar and batteries. Microwave does some reheating and maybe I should have bought a combi version on reflection? In fairness though Peter, you're an experienced engineer with the knowledge to install an electric motor and batteries. At this point, I think that is a fairly rare thing, although more boaters will be willing to give it a try as time goes on. But all that said, I am looking at this future issue with too much of a 2021 perspective. The reality is that electric vehicles will become far more common over the next two decades, and people will get more familiar with the motors and batteries, so by the time 2050 comes, there will be plenty of used motors and batteries on the market, loads of people who will be able to do the install themselves, and plenty of professionals who will do it at an affordable price. Even the batteries will be more affordable, regardless of what the technology is at the time. At the moment, the prices I've seen online for electric motor narrowboat installs are simply ridiculous, but that will change. The other questions for me are: 1. how much solar can you get on a narrowboat roof? My panels are 660w, and even that 660w takes up about a third of the roof. 2. How much energy or charge (or how many Ah) would you need to gather from the solar, to cruise a narrowboat for say 6 hours? PS - on the combi thing, I personally would have to have a grill of some sort if I didnt have an oven, but preferably both. I spent two years with a microwave as my only cooking method, and I wouldnt want to do that again. I bet an electric oven would use a hell of a lot of energy, and a grill would be more economical, but ideally you'd want both. I think ICE will be gone before 2030 regardless of legislation new cars I am on about here, Euro 7 is on the horizon and car makers are saying why bother investing in doomed tech. Porsche are investing in efuel but I cant see happening on a large scale as its over £5 a litre and its not available yet!! Secondhand wise the squeeze will be on ICE cars with ever increasing pay to enter for them and no doubt increasing costs
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Post by kris on Apr 14, 2021 8:51:05 GMT
Heating water and cooking on electric are what I’ve got to get into. After experiencing these new panels I can see how electric propulsion could be possible. I cook electric and I've only 1Kw panels and at the moment in this bright sunshine I'm charging at over 30 Amps (@24v).
batteries are approaching float and this afternoon I have a duck to roast the power for which will be almost all met by the solar.
With the improvements in panels over just the last few years, I think I need to look and see if I can add another 500w or so to mine and mount them at a better angle for winter sunshine (especially as my venture into wind power turned into such a bust)
I think off grid at this latitude I think there’s always going to be that dark spot I. The winter when running an internal combustion engine becomes vital. No matter how much solar you’ve got
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Post by peterboat on Apr 14, 2021 8:56:09 GMT
I cook electric and I've only 1Kw panels and at the moment in this bright sunshine I'm charging at over 30 Amps (@24v).
batteries are approaching float and this afternoon I have a duck to roast the power for which will be almost all met by the solar.
With the improvements in panels over just the last few years, I think I need to look and see if I can add another 500w or so to mine and mount them at a better angle for winter sunshine (especially as my venture into wind power turned into such a bust)
I think off grid at this latitude I think there’s always going to be that dark spot I. The winter when running an internal combustion engine becomes vital. No matter how much solar you’ve got Not sure Kris with all my solar in play 4.6kw I think I can just make it through the winter, however it means using the sink rather than the dishwasher etc, I will be able to tell you better next year when the rejig is done
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Post by kris on Apr 14, 2021 8:58:09 GMT
I think off grid at this latitude I think there’s always going to be that dark spot I. The winter when running an internal combustion engine becomes vital. No matter how much solar you’ve got Not sure Kris with all my solar in play 4.6kw I think I can just make it through the winter, however it means using the sink rather than the dishwasher etc, I will be able to tell you better next year when the rejig is done yes maybe with 4.6kw and a reduced power regime. But personally with 2.2kw I’m expecting to have to run a generator maybe once a week for four hours.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2021 9:44:50 GMT
Not sure Kris with all my solar in play 4.6kw I think I can just make it through the winter, however it means using the sink rather than the dishwasher etc, I will be able to tell you better next year when the rejig is done yes maybe with 4.6kw and a reduced power regime. But personally with 2.2kw I’m expecting to have to run a generator maybe once a week for four hours. I'm thinking of getting more solar panels tbh. At the moment, with it being sunny here for about half the day, I'm not having to run the engine. I would guess I'm using about 120Ah per day, and I'm getting about 80Ah back from the solar, so my SoC is falling by about 10% (maybe 40Ah) each day when not cruising. A couple more panels would make the boat self-sufficient (at this time of year anyway). In summer, I think there will be days when I need to disconnect the solar to keep the SoC below 90%. If I have to leave the boat for say a week (in summer or winter), my plan is to get the batteries up to 85% and then disconnect the solar, otherwise they will be held around 100% SoC the whole time I'm away. I did notice the solar charge picked up a fair bit when I tilted the panels towards the sun earlier, but if I add more panels they will have to be mounted flat, so as not to foul the centre line when doing locks etc.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2021 10:07:24 GMT
So can I ask- with a roof full of solar panels, how do you manage if/when you want to get on the roof and go forward?
It hasn't happened to me often, but I do remember one or two locks where there was no lock ladder at my end, and I had to go forward over the roof to reach the ladder. Normally I can get onto the ladders directly from the stern deck, but not in this case.
I guess I could have walked along the gunnels to reach the ladder, but in the narrow locks there wasnt a big gap, and the walls were slimy as hell, so I would rather avoid walking along the sides and getting my clothes 'slimed' if the boat moves close to the wall.
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Post by JohnV on Apr 14, 2021 10:08:59 GMT
I didnt fancy getting 'slimed'. but being slimed is a feature of muddy ditch crawling
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Post by kris on Apr 14, 2021 10:09:54 GMT
yes maybe with 4.6kw and a reduced power regime. But personally with 2.2kw I’m expecting to have to run a generator maybe once a week for four hours. I'm thinking of getting more solar panels tbh. At the moment, with it being sunny here for about half the day, I'm not having to run the engine. I would guess I'm using about 120Ah per day, and I'm getting about 80Ah back from the solar, so my SoC is falling by about 10% (maybe 40Ah) each day when not cruising. A couple more panels would make the boat self-sufficient (at this time of year anyway). In summer, I think there will be days when I need to disconnect the solar to keep the SoC below 90%. If I have to leave the boat for say a week (in summer or winter), my plan is to get the batteries up to 85% and then disconnect the solar, otherwise they will be held around 100% SoC the whole time I'm away. I did notice the solar charge picked up a fair bit when I tilted the panels towards the sun earlier, but if I add more panels they will have to be mounted flat, so as not to foul the centre line when doing locks etc. I’m having to disconnect the solar at the moment, but I’m planing to be using more power soon. My problem or issue at the moment is setting the soc. so it reads correct. So all I’m doing is keeping them between 13.8v-12.8v
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2021 10:14:03 GMT
I didnt fancy getting 'slimed'. but being slimed is a feature of muddy ditch crawling But I'm not a proper boater John, I'm a soft jessie I'm looking to reduce the amount of slime in my life
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