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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 23, 2021 11:39:59 GMT
but did your finger slip with the thread ? .... or was it deliberate ? π Last time I looked on this thread folks were waffling on about the Ribble Link, so thought it was quite apt to post this pic here. The remains of the railway bridge are still visible about 1/2 mile from Tarleton locks. π Do you happen to know the least depth the Ebb runs down to in the channel from the Douglas Boatyard to Asland Light ?
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Post by IainS on Oct 23, 2021 14:26:25 GMT
Do you happen to know the least depth the Ebb runs down to in the channel from the Douglas Boatyard to Asland Light ? It's certainly non navigable below Tarleton lock at low tide. We had to wait there for a couple of hours when we had intended to wind above the lock. Insufficient room, due to moored boats, so we waited until there was enough water below the lock. I think that was between two and three hours after the tide had started to rise at the lock.
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Post by IainS on Oct 23, 2021 14:49:58 GMT
Surely if the law requires a PBC in order to be on the PRN waterway, the PBC is part of the βlawful authorityβ - the other part being the immutable PRN. So it isnβt exactly a PRN, statue says that in order to lawfully exercise the PRN one must have a PBC. They are part and parcel of the same thing, and without a PBC one cannot exercise the PRN and are therefore there unlawfully. Out of interest, do you know how other agencies treat boats without a PBC who are on a PRN river? You've got the first bit the wrong way round. For BW controlled rivers, the first relevant part is Therefore, outwith the main navigational channel, a boat may utilise the PRN without a PBC. There is a problem (of relatively recent origin and of very dubious logic, to say nothing about ignoring several legal principles) that a Court held that the "main navigable channel" could extend from bank to bank.
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Post by JohnV on Oct 23, 2021 14:58:37 GMT
This was the case I alluded to earlier in the thread where CRT generously offered to not to take costs from the person who lost providing they didn't take it to a higher court (basically because they knew there was an exceedingly good chance they would lose)
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 24, 2021 15:47:06 GMT
but did your finger slip with the thread ? .... or was it deliberate ? π Last time I looked on this thread folks were waffling on about the Ribble Link, so thought it was quite apt to post this pic here. The remains of the railway bridge are still visible about 1/2 mile from Tarleton locks. π Do you happen to know the least depth the Ebb runs down to anywhere in the channel from the Douglas Boatyard to Asland Light ?
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Post by Andyberg on Oct 24, 2021 17:38:36 GMT
π Last time I looked on this thread folks were waffling on about the Ribble Link, so thought it was quite apt to post this pic here. The remains of the railway bridge are still visible about 1/2 mile from Tarleton locks. π Do you happen to know the least depth the Ebb runs down to in the channel from the Douglas Boatyard to Asland Light ? No
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Post by Andyberg on Oct 24, 2021 17:39:12 GMT
π Last time I looked on this thread folks were waffling on about the Ribble Link, so thought it was quite apt to post this pic here. The remains of the railway bridge are still visible about 1/2 mile from Tarleton locks. π Do you happen to know the least depth the Ebb runs down to anywhere in the channel from the Douglas Boatyard to Asland Light ? Arial view of Douglas Boat Yardβ¦.Preston / Ribble to the right, Tarleton locks to the left.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 24, 2021 20:43:49 GMT
Tide time at Tarleton is sod all to do with it. We're talking about the Savick Brook from the half-tide barrier about 400 yards down from the A583 Blackpool Road Bridge up to the 3 risers into the canal basin - ie. the Ribble Link. From the half-tide barrier to the tide lock, No. 8, the Ribble Link is semi-tidal, . . from lock No.8 up locks No's 7, 6, 5, and 4 to the 3 risers into the canal basin, the Ribble Link is non-tidal, . . so a one-way working system can be implemented on it, alternating direction every 1 - 2 hours, at any time on any day, . . and for as long as is necessary, depending on the number of boats making passage on any given day. From memory the link between Tarleton and the Lancaster Canal operates for 3 or 4 days either side of spring tides. If high tide is in the morning, it runs from Tarleton to the Lancaster: if high tide is in the afternoon, it operates the other way. I guess it could use two way working, but that would involve either starting down the locks really early (Lancaster to Tarleton with a morning tide) or boats overnighting on the semi tidal part of Savick Brook. Going the other way on an afternoon tide would require operation of the tide gate at "Lock 9" after tea time! The timing is most critical going Tarleton to Lancaster; too slow, and it's Preston dock as a port of refuge. The other way, we had to wait at Tarleton until the tide gates could be opened, after which all the boats cruised through the lock with both ends open. A read through all the C&RT piffle does confirm that they don't allow the use of the half-tide barrier gate or the other 5 pound locks in Savick Brook except for 3 or 4 tides either side of Springs. A read through the tide predictions for Preston and Savick Brook for the whole of this year, on the other hand, confirms that at HW on even the smallest of Neaps there is enough depth for vessels drawing up to 4 feet to comfortably pass through the half-tide barrier gate approximately 400 yards below the A583 Blackpool Road Bridge. In other words, there is absolutely NO NEED for the C&RT nonsense restricting passage onto or off the Lancaster Canal to 3 or 4 tides either side of Springs, . . or for the even more nonsensical one-way working on alternate days. Together, these two idiotic and completely unnecessary measures reduce the operational availability of the so-called Ribble Link to only one quarter of the total number of tides available in any 12 month period, . . even less when the daylight tides only factor is also reckoned in.
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Post by IainS on Oct 24, 2021 23:36:51 GMT
A read through all the C&RT piffle does confirm that they don't allow the use of the half-tide barrier gate or the other 5 pound locks in Savick Brook except for 3 or 4 tides either side of Springs. A read through the tide predictions for Preston and Savick Brook for the whole of this year, on the other hand, confirms that at HW on even the smallest of Neaps there is enough depth for vessels drawing up to 4 feet to comfortably pass through the half-tide barrier gate approximately 400 yards below the A583 Blackpool Road Bridge. In other words, there is absolutely NO NEED for the C&RT nonsense restricting passage onto or off the Lancaster Canal to 3 or 4 tides either side of Springs, . . or for the even more nonsensical one-way working on alternate days. Together, these two idiotic and completely unnecessary measures reduce the operational availability of the so-called Ribble Link to only one quarter of the total number of tides available in any 12 month period, . . even less when the daylight tides only factor is also reckoned in. The problem would be arranging for a timely arrival. As it is, it can be a bit chancy getting into Savick Brook if there are any hold ups on the passage. (We cut it fairly fine on our trip up, as I had to reduce power due to an overheating problem). One solution would be the installation of a pontoon mooring near the mouth of the Douglas, which would allow passage downstream on the Douglas on a falling tide; moor up until the tide turned and travel upstream on the Ribble on a rising tide. (I'd be happy anchoring, but I suspect the crew of wife and dog would get a bit restive )
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 25, 2021 21:33:25 GMT
More enquiries yesterday have further confirmed that the sole obstacle to year round use of the Millenium Ribble Link, and much increased pleasure craft traffic during the Summer months, limited at present to approximately 90 days out of the whole 6 months of Summer, purely at the whim of the so-called management, . . is quite simply the bloody-minded stupidity and incompetence of C&RT itself.
This useless and thoroughly untrustworthy so-called Trust is not fit to be left in charge of a kiddies park boating lake !
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 21:49:23 GMT
This useless and thoroughly untrustworthy so-called Trust is not fit to be left in charge of a kiddies park boating lake ! Boy oh boy you sure got them this time
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Post by Jim on Oct 26, 2021 6:10:09 GMT
Have you copied Richard Parry in?
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 26, 2021 6:41:20 GMT
C&RT has no mandate to arbitrarily close any of the canals or navigations under its control, other than for valid operational, maintenance, or safety reasons, . . and NOT ONE of those reasons can be honestly put forward as genuinely applicable to the routine unnecessary closures of the 4 miles of canalised drainage ditch, 8 pound locks, and one half-tide barrier that together comprise the Ribble Link.
Further evidence of C&RT's confusion and incompetence has been noted amongst the crap published on the waterway dimensions pages of their website. Apparently, . . according to the geniuses responsible for effectively closing the waterway to navigation for around a total of 9 months out of every 12, . . the influence of the tides in the Ribble extends up the canalised Savick Brook as far as the pound between Locks 7 and 6 counting down from the level of the Lancaster Canal itself :-
"Note: Boat size is recommended from channel widths rather than lock sizes, confirm with us before passage - Locks 7, 8 and 9 are tidal. The locks on the Ribble Link are for crafts 72' (21.94m) although the Rufford Branch is 62' (18.9m)".
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 26, 2021 7:42:34 GMT
I have had my plan for cruising this winter scuppered by long term winter stoppage near Gargrave, I am currently thinking about going on to the Ribble Link around Christmas, and pottering up and down the Lancaster. Is this a good plan? I tried to phone the N W Offices for some related advice today, as advised by the CRT website. Aparently the call centre don't release that number to the public (!!!!). Grrrrrr. Would I tell him what my query is, and what canal is the Ribble Link on. Now what advice can some person in a call centre give to myself, a stakeholder, the roles are reversed. It makes me so annoyed. As far as I can make out, as far as I am aware, The Ribble Link is the name of the navigation, but what is the point of the question, I wanted a phone number, he refused to give it me, end of query. It's now been established beyond any possible doubt that, provided you can get onto the Western end of the Leeds and Liverpool via one of the other two trans-Pennine routes, there is absolutely no valid reason why you can't get onto the Lancaster Canal by Christmas, and follow your original plan. The first 3 or 4 months of the year are undoubtedly the best time to make use of the Lancaster Canal due to the massive weed growth that's nowadays almost making the canal impassable by mid-Summer. C&RT has no right or authority to close any waterway under its control on purely arbitrary grounds and for no good reason, . . which in the case of the Ribble Link, is precisely what is being done, . . in effect, and in total, for 9 months out of every 12.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Oct 26, 2021 8:06:35 GMT
I have had my plan for cruising this winter scuppered by long term winter stoppage near Gargrave, I am currently thinking about going on to the Ribble Link around Christmas, and pottering up and down the Lancaster. Is this a good plan? I tried to phone the N W Offices for some related advice today, as advised by the CRT website. Aparently the call centre don't release that number to the public (!!!!). Grrrrrr. Would I tell him what my query is, and what canal is the Ribble Link on. Now what advice can some person in a call centre give to myself, a stakeholder, the roles are reversed. It makes me so annoyed. As far as I can make out, as far as I am aware, The Ribble Link is the name of the navigation, but what is the point of the question, I wanted a phone number, he refused to give it me, end of query. It's now been established beyond any possible doubt that, provided you can get onto the Western end of the Leeds and Liverpool via one of the other two trans-Pennine routes, there is absolutely no valid reason why you can't get onto the Lancaster Canal by Christmas, and follow your original plan. In fact, it has been established beyond any possible doubt that it would not be possible because the Ribble crossing is closed until April.
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