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Post by Jim on Aug 7, 2022 17:39:25 GMT
...and when you've "won" you deliver what you have promised? Or not? No quitling I have asked has come up with any tangible benefit for the majority of ordinary folks. I know xenophobes and truckers are happy, who else? have you watched how the EU has been dealing with the Russian invasion ?
On a related subject how much do you think the EU is going to charge it's individual members to pay for Germany's bail out when the production lines stop rolling ?
just keep watching.
and if you care to check back to what I and several others have been saying all along ..... there won't be any immediate or even short term benefits.
For a while it's going to be tough because the French are like the remoaners .... they can't abide not getting there own way.
That wasn't the point.
The point was sovereignty and not handing over control to an undemocratic unelected group of fat cats that you can't vote out of office.
Not having a parliament that cannot introduce any laws or regulations but are purely a rubber stamp for the unelected commisioners
The EU or as it is rapidly becoming the Federal European State is not an organisation that anyone who believes in democracy should be a member
Don't just trot out the same as of anti EU guff JohnV , I acknowledge you won by a tiny majority of those who voted, fuelled by lies. If they weren't lies where are the promised benefits, eg Farage said even the worst case post brexit scenario would be better than it was then, in the EU. Boris claimed he had done an excellent deal, or similar boosterish comments, well, he had to resign for lying, also he and no doubt his successor, will want to renege on the excellent deal and restart conflict in Northern Ireland. Of course Putin has made things bad for the whole planet, but it's been made far worse by Brexit. 13% inflation, I hear cries of "we don't care, we've no mortgage and a healthy pension, we will benefit from tax cuts, bugger the poor" from the Tory* masses. *"Tory" from the Gaelic for thief, robber, outlaw.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 7, 2022 20:13:17 GMT
It's ironic how some people who live in council houses have Vote Conservative posters in their windows.
It's ironic how people who vote Conservative are happy to use the NHS, Social Security, Unemployment Benefit, and Old Age Pensions. Hypocrites one and all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 21:15:06 GMT
...and when you've "won" you deliver what you have promised? Or not? No quitling I have asked has come up with any tangible benefit for the majority of ordinary folks. I know xenophobes and truckers are happy, who else? have you watched how the EU has been dealing with the Russian invasion ? Please elaborate on this point.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Aug 7, 2022 21:49:09 GMT
but unlike you and other remoaners, she accepted the result of a majority vote and knuckled down to making it work It's called democracy, that is where when you do not get your way, you accept the vote and get on with things. not be a dickhead and keep railing about how unfair it is that you didn't get your own way. I know xenophobes and truckers are happy, who else? Pretty much anyone who has experienced wage stagnation for the last 15 or so years. You know, the Working Class. If Labour had been able to get its head around this then it wouldn't have been wiped out at the last General Election. They couldn't then and they still can't so they're going to be slaughtered at the next GE, and the one after that, and the one after that... There's no point in the Labour Party any more, they are just Conservatives in red ties, you might as well vote for the real deal rather than the Lidl knock-off version.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 22:19:17 GMT
I know xenophobes and truckers are happy, who else? they're going to be slaughtered at the next GE, and the one after that, and the one after that As a would-be Cassandra I fear you are somewhat inadequate. You are probably right that the Tories will retain power for the best part of this decade; long enough to preside over the worst recession since the 1930s, after which there will be a desire for 'change'. We'll see exactly how much out of favour the Tories are at the next election, which can't be too much longer. Do you really think things are improving for the working class? Banging the nationalist drum always ends badly, and this latest episode (which has only just started rolling) will be no exception.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 8, 2022 5:47:06 GMT
Another virtue-signalling politician in on the Great Covid Scam. Black is so mysterious, isn't it? Just a fashion statement, nothing to do with a 'deadly virus'.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 8, 2022 7:05:04 GMT
have you watched how the EU has been dealing with the Russian invasion ? Please elaborate on this point. wobbly
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Post by JohnV on Aug 8, 2022 7:22:09 GMT
have you watched how the EU has been dealing with the Russian invasion ?
On a related subject how much do you think the EU is going to charge it's individual members to pay for Germany's bail out when the production lines stop rolling ?
just keep watching.
and if you care to check back to what I and several others have been saying all along ..... there won't be any immediate or even short term benefits.
For a while it's going to be tough because the French are like the remoaners .... they can't abide not getting there own way.
That wasn't the point.
The point was sovereignty and not handing over control to an undemocratic unelected group of fat cats that you can't vote out of office.
Not having a parliament that cannot introduce any laws or regulations but are purely a rubber stamp for the unelected commisioners
The EU or as it is rapidly becoming the Federal European State is not an organisation that anyone who believes in democracy should be a member
Don't just trot out the same as of anti EU guff JohnV , I acknowledge you won by a tiny majority of those who voted, fuelled by lies. If they weren't lies where are the promised benefits, eg Farage said even the worst case post brexit scenario would be better than it was then, in the EU. Boris claimed he had done an excellent deal, or similar boosterish comments, well, he had to resign for lying, also he and no doubt his successor, will want to renege on the excellent deal and restart conflict in Northern Ireland. Of course Putin has made things bad for the whole planet, but it's been made far worse by Brexit. 13% inflation, I hear cries of "we don't care, we've no mortgage and a healthy pension, we will benefit from tax cuts, bugger the poor" from the Tory* masses. *"Tory" from the Gaelic for thief, robber, outlaw. Please point out any single post of mine that suggested there were going to be any immediate or even short term benefits to Brexit.
You completely ignored that in your reply.
As regards lies told during the campaign ...... there were politicians involved and the lies flew thick and fast from both sides and you damn well know it.
The actions of extremists, left wing idiots, wokeists, and the great metropolitan groupings of what used to be refered to as "champagne socialists"
( Now it seems to have a slightly different demographic that sure as hell is not working class) these are the ones who are now in charge of the Labour Party
These are the ones who have ensured that the Labour party is unelectable
This is a major problem in a democracy that is basically a combatative form.
To work at it's best such a system depends on a reasonably equal distribution of power which varies slightly from one side to the other but never allows it to go too far from the centre.
If you cannot see that this is the main internal cause of our problems (temporarily ignoring the external forces) then you are even more blinkered than I thought
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Post by JohnV on Aug 8, 2022 7:32:24 GMT
Any MP is better than a Tory MP that is one of the biggest loads of bollocks I have seen on thunderboat.
In my opinion some 70% of MPs are party hacks who will toe the party line, whatever it is in order to keep their noses in the trough.
20% are well meaning but are willing to follow the party line unless it conflicts totally with their core beliefs
just 10% are truly good representatives of their constituents with a strong moral core and are willing to put their careers on the line if they believe it just
that 10% is divided pretty evenly across the political spectrum
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Post by Jim on Aug 8, 2022 8:04:01 GMT
Don't just trot out the same as of anti EU guff JohnV , I acknowledge you won by a tiny majority of those who voted, fuelled by lies. If they weren't lies where are the promised benefits, eg Farage said even the worst case post brexit scenario would be better than it was then, in the EU. Boris claimed he had done an excellent deal, or similar boosterish comments, well, he had to resign for lying, also he and no doubt his successor, will want to renege on the excellent deal and restart conflict in Northern Ireland. Of course Putin has made things bad for the whole planet, but it's been made far worse by Brexit. 13% inflation, I hear cries of "we don't care, we've no mortgage and a healthy pension, we will benefit from tax cuts, bugger the poor" from the Tory* masses. *"Tory" from the Gaelic for thief, robber, outlaw. Please point out any single post of mine that suggested there were going to be any immediate or even short term benefits to Brexit.
You completely ignored that in your reply.
As regards lies told during the campaign ...... there were politicians involved and the lies flew thick and fast from both sides and you damn well know it.
The actions of extremists, left wing idiots, wokeists, and the great metropolitan groupings of what used to be refered to as "champagne socialists"
( Now it seems to have a slightly different demographic that sure as hell is not working class) these are the ones who are now in charge of the Labour Party
These are the ones who have ensured that the Labour party is unelectable
This is a major problem in a democracy that is basically a combatative form.
To work at it's best such a system depends on a reasonably equal distribution of power which varies slightly from one side to the other but never allows it to go too far from the centre.
If you cannot see that this is the main internal cause of our problems (temporarily ignoring the external forces) then you are even more blinkered than I thought
I didn't say you had John, I said others had, obviously you are one of the few quitters with a bit of intelligence. The benefits, f they arrive ve, will be so far in the future it really wasn't worth the bother and pain of waiting. HI'll ignore the twaddle about the Labour party. As for the anti woke campaign, is it misogyny, racism, picking on the disabled, or whatever, where you find a restriction on your outpourings a problem? You can say what you want on here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2022 9:02:16 GMT
Any MP is better than a Tory MP that is one of the biggest loads of bollocks I have seen on thunderboat. In my opinion some 70% of MPs are party hacks who will toe the party line, whatever it is in order to keep their noses in the trough. 20% are well meaning but are willing to follow the party line unless it conflicts totally with their core beliefs
just 10% are truly good representatives of their constituents with a strong moral core and are willing to put their careers on the line if they believe it just that 10% is divided pretty evenly across the political spectrum
Not any more, Johnson sacked all the "good" Tory MPs so only the sycophants were left. So the Tory party has no "good" MPs. I rest my case any MP is better than a Tory MP
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Post by JohnV on Aug 8, 2022 9:29:11 GMT
that is one of the biggest loads of bollocks I have seen on thunderboat. In my opinion some 70% of MPs are party hacks who will toe the party line, whatever it is in order to keep their noses in the trough. 20% are well meaning but are willing to follow the party line unless it conflicts totally with their core beliefs
just 10% are truly good representatives of their constituents with a strong moral core and are willing to put their careers on the line if they believe it just that 10% is divided pretty evenly across the political spectrum
Not any more, Johnson sacked all the "good" Tory MPs so only the sycophants were left. So the Tory party has no "good" MPs. I rest my case any MP is better than a Tory MP Johnson did not sack any Tory MPs, that is beyond the ability of any Prime Minister.
The only people who can "sack" an MP are the voters in their constituancy.
On fairly rare occasions the "whip" may be withdrawn which can prevent that MP from effectively being a member of that particular political party.
but that does not mean they are no longer an MP with the right to speak and vote in parliament
The Prime Minister may load his "cabinet" with sycophants but the next leader can just as easily bring them back if he so wishes.
You seem to have a strange view on what powers a PM actually has
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2022 10:13:26 GMT
It's a difficult choice ... the multi-millionaire and self serving Boris, or the multi-millionaire and self serving Sir Keir Starmer.
And now all change as the incredibly wealthy Truss and Sunak jostle for position.
Does anyone really believe it's going to make any difference ?
If the pandemic taught anything, it was that problems can be resolved and money found to do so, IF and ONLY IF there is a political will to do so.
The status quo only serves those who have ... for clarity that's politicians ... all of them.
Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 8, 2022 10:13:30 GMT
So we are out of the EU Whoopee We are handing over control to an undemocratic unelected group of fat cats who behind the scenes run the Tory party and our printed press and that you can't vote them out of office. Well you can’t vote the unelected out of office - obviously! But you can vote the government out of office. And replace them with another government run by unelected Union leaders if you like. But I think what you perhaps mean is that it was so unfair that the majority of UK voters voted for a different party from the one you voted for, which of course is outrageous.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 8, 2022 10:17:45 GMT
It's a difficult choice ... the multi-millionaire and self serving Boris, or the multi-millionaire and self serving Sir Keir Starmer. And now all change as the incredibly wealthy Truss and Sunak jostle for position. Does anyone really believe it's going to make any difference ? If the pandemic taught anything, it was that problems can be resolved and money found to do so, IF and ONLY IF there is a political will to do so. The status quo only serves those who have ... for clarity that's politicians ... all of them. Rog I am not sure their personal wealth has anything to do with it. Or in fact yes perhaps it does have something to do with it, at least in the case of those people who are wealthy as a result of their own competence and hard work (as opposed to inheriting it). Surely the country is better run by people with a track record of managing themselves well, rather that someone who is not wealthy because they made the wrong choices in their own lives?
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