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Post by Tony Dunkley on May 4, 2024 21:18:14 GMT
Let me know if you'd like me to speak to the boatyard (about a mile down the Douglas from Tarleton) and arrange a Low Water layover berth on their floating stages." Thanks but I think the first time I do the transit I will just “go with the flow” ie go along with everyone else. Once I have seen the actual situation on the ground (water) I might think differently. That's just what you won't be doing. The tidal passage scheduling for the so-called Ribble Link, dictated by C&RT's office chair polishing tosspots, ensures that you'll be stemming the tide in the Ribble and the Douglas most of the way from Tarleton to (the non-tidal) Savick Brook, and most of the way back too. You'll also be negotiating the trickiest parts of the journey, . . where you're most likely to ground on a steep-to shoal or bank edge, at the state of the tide that's best avoided if possible, . . ie. when the tide's falling rather than rising. Fact is, . . that C&RT's ineptitude and incompetence is actually increasing the chances of a serious mishap, . . when a competent, responsible navigation authority would and should be doing the exact opposite.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on May 5, 2024 6:52:46 GMT
Thanks but I think the first time I do the transit I will just “go with the flow” ie go along with everyone else. Once I have seen the actual situation on the ground (water) I might think differently. Like I said, once you've done it you'll understand perfectly why it's done the way it is. You've been told before, . . Shit-for-Brains, . . DON'T express opinions, or hand out advice or guidance on subjects you're not qualified to speak on, and know absolutely nothing about. The inept and utterly ridiculous passage planning for the Douglas and the Ribble that the C&RT clowns foist on the amateur skippers of canal pleasure craft, increases the chances of there being major mishaps with some potentially very serious consequences. They've all been lucky so far, . . the C&RT clowns, and the people they're exposing to unnecessary risks, . . but luck can't be relied on to last forever.
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Post by Telemachus on May 5, 2024 6:55:36 GMT
Thanks but I think the first time I do the transit I will just “go with the flow” ie go along with everyone else. Once I have seen the actual situation on the ground (water) I might think differently. That's just what you won't be doing. The tidal passage scheduling for the so-called Ribble Link, dictated by C&RT's office chair polishing tosspots, ensures that you'll be stemming the tide in the Ribble and the Douglas most of the way from Tarleton to (the non-tidal) Savick Brook, and most of the way back too. You'll also be negotiating the trickiest parts of the journey, . . where you're most likely to ground on a steep-to shoal or bank edge, at the state of the tide that's best avoided if possible, . . ie. when the tide's falling rather than rising. Fact is, . . that C&RT's ineptitude and incompetence is actually increasing the chances of a serious mishap, . . when a competent, responsible navigation authority would and should be doing the exact opposite. I said “go with the flow” intending irony.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on May 5, 2024 7:31:13 GMT
That's just what you won't be doing. The tidal passage scheduling for the so-called Ribble Link, dictated by C&RT's office chair polishing tosspots, ensures that you'll be stemming the tide in the Ribble and the Douglas most of the way from Tarleton to (the non-tidal) Savick Brook, and most of the way back too. You'll also be negotiating the trickiest parts of the journey, . . where you're most likely to ground on a steep-to shoal or bank edge, at the state of the tide that's best avoided if possible, . . ie. when the tide's falling rather than rising. Fact is, . . that C&RT's ineptitude and incompetence is actually increasing the chances of a serious mishap, . . when a competent, responsible navigation authority would and should be doing the exact opposite. I said “go with the flow” intending irony. Yes, I know you did, . . and my reply was in the same vein. But it really would be ironic if you end up being the boat that demonstrates the extent to which safe successful passage making, if done the crackpot amateurish C&RT way, is mainly dependent on sheer luck rather than long standing proven good practice.
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Post by Telemachus on May 5, 2024 8:05:04 GMT
I said “go with the flow” intending irony. Yes, I know you did, . . and my reply was in the same vein. But it really would be ironic if you end up being the boat that demonstrates the extent to which safe successful passage making, if done the crackpot amateurish C&RT way, is mainly dependent on sheer luck rather than long standing proven good practice. Well I have been boating nearly as long as you have, and spent over 10 years of family holidays in Cornwall in the 1960s and early 70s exploring the upper reaches of the tidal Fal estuary and its many tributaries in a motor-sailer with a keel, and learnt techniques such as using a transit, from my dad. So I think it is unlikely that I will be the one to come unstuck, especially bearing in mind the general incompetence of so many “born again” narrowboaters. Have seen some really stupid behaviour (massively cutting corners etc) on the tidal Trent from other boaters. So I am going to confidently say “it won’t be me”! (FLW). For example, I won’t be the one turning right before the Astland lamp! What about the tactic for going the other way - Savick to Tarlton? Is there a better way of doing that?
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 5, 2024 15:56:50 GMT
Yes, I know you did, . . and my reply was in the same vein. But it really would be ironic if you end up being the boat that demonstrates the extent to which safe successful passage making, if done the crackpot am What about the tactic for going the other way - Savick to Tarlton? Is there a better way of doing that? You'll commence the southbound passage on the incoming tide, as soon as there is some water in Savick Brook. However you will almost certainly ground the boat and have to wait for the water to rise before you can proceed. This photo was taken 10-15 minutes after I grounded and I was probably stuck fast for another 30 minutes or so before I could proceed. So any earlier and you'd just get stuck for longer. Much later and the water level would be too high to pass beneath the Blackpool Road bridge and the water pipe. That's why it's timed as it is. But like I said, you'll see all this for yourself.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 5, 2024 16:53:42 GMT
One thing I would add to the above is that if you do solicit advice about doing the Ribble Link crossing, then I would highly recommend that you only take such advice from boaters who have actually done the crossing and not from some "Armchair Skipper" who never has and doesn't even own a boat.
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Post by deleted on May 5, 2024 17:14:44 GMT
What about the tactic for going the other way - Savick to Tarlton? Is there a better way of doing that? You'll commence the southbound passage on the incoming tide, as soon as there is some water in Savick Brook. However you will almost certainly ground the boat and have to wait for the water to rise before you can proceed. This photo was taken 10-15 minutes after I grounded and I was probably stuck fast for another 30 minutes or so before I could proceed. So any earlier and you'd just get stuck for longer. Much later and the water level would be too high to pass beneath the Blackpool Road bridge and the water pipe. That's why it's timed as it is. But like I said, you'll see all this for yourself. I think you're missing the essential point though. Which is CRT are bad. Very bad. There should be an expert in charge.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 5, 2024 17:17:43 GMT
You'll commence the southbound passage on the incoming tide, as soon as there is some water in Savick Brook. However you will almost certainly ground the boat and have to wait for the water to rise before you can proceed. This photo was taken 10-15 minutes after I grounded and I was probably stuck fast for another 30 minutes or so before I could proceed. So any earlier and you'd just get stuck for longer. Much later and the water level would be too high to pass beneath the Blackpool Road bridge and the water pipe. That's why it's timed as it is. But like I said, you'll see all this for yourself. I think you're missing the essential point though. Which is CRT are bad. Very bad. There should be an expert in charge. Absolutely. If CRT said that the sun rises in the east, "a certain person" would say "No it doesn't". I'm just advising Nick to ignore any input from this source.
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Post by Telemachus on May 5, 2024 17:25:44 GMT
I think you're missing the essential point though. Which is CRT are bad. Very bad. There should be an expert in charge. Absolutely. If CRT said that the sun rises in the east, "a certain person" would say "No it doesn't". I'm just advising Nick to ignore any input from this source. I wouldn’t worry, I am accustomed to sorting and filtering advice. When I started in the N Sea as a copilot, flying with lots of different captains, many of them had lots of different ideas and techniques and “bees in their bonnets”. Some of which were excellent and some of which were shite. Part of growing to be a proper pilot from a baby pilot, is to filter all that input - take the best, and reject the worst.
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Post by deleted on May 5, 2024 17:27:14 GMT
I think you're missing the essential point though. Which is CRT are bad. Very bad. There should be an expert in charge. Absolutely. If CRT said that the sun rises in the east, "a certain person" would say "No it doesn't". I'm just advising Nick to ignore any input from this source. Nick's enjoying himself a lot though. Vigorously.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on May 5, 2024 18:18:00 GMT
Yes, I know you did, . . and my reply was in the same vein. But it really would be ironic if you end up being the boat that demonstrates the extent to which safe successful passage making, if done the crackpot amateurish C&RT way, is mainly dependent on sheer luck rather than long standing proven good practice. Well I have been boating nearly as long as you have, and spent over 10 years of family holidays in Cornwall in the 1960s and early 70s exploring the upper reaches of the tidal Fal estuary and its many tributaries in a motor-sailer with a keel, and learnt techniques such as using a transit, from my dad. So I think it is unlikely that I will be the one to come unstuck, especially bearing in mind the general incompetence of so many “born again” narrowboaters. Have seen some really stupid behaviour (massively cutting corners etc) on the tidal Trent from other boaters. So I am going to confidently say “it won’t be me”! (FLW). For example, I won’t be the one turning right before the Astland lamp! What about the tactic for going the other way - Savick to Tarlton? Is there a better way of doing that?Yes, there are other, better options for timing the run back down the Ribble and up the Douglas to Tarleton, . . but only for those with local knowledge, and comfortable with and experienced in working around tides in the lower reaches and estuaries of rivers such as the Ribble. Or with a local boatman or pilot* on board, or on an accompanying boat. NB. * Other than glider or helicopter pilots, . . obviously.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 5, 2024 18:31:33 GMT
Absolutely. If CRT said that the sun rises in the east, "a certain person" would say "No it doesn't". I'm just advising Nick to ignore any input from this source. I wouldn’t worry, I am accustomed to sorting and filtering advice. When I started in the N Sea as a copilot, flying with lots of different captains, many of them had lots of different ideas and techniques and “bees in their bonnets”. Some of which were excellent and some of which were shite. Part of growing to be a proper pilot from a baby pilot, is to filter all that input - take the best, and reject the worst. You'll get some very useful advice from boaters who have actually done the Ribble Link, and you seem well qualified to sort the wheat from the chaff, although it's all academic really. In both directions you undertake the crossing at the booking time CRT give you, subject to alterations by the ground crew depending on prevailing conditions.
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Post by Telemachus on May 5, 2024 18:35:19 GMT
I wouldn’t worry, I am accustomed to sorting and filtering advice. When I started in the N Sea as a copilot, flying with lots of different captains, many of them had lots of different ideas and techniques and “bees in their bonnets”. Some of which were excellent and some of which were shite. Part of growing to be a proper pilot from a baby pilot, is to filter all that input - take the best, and reject the worst. You'll get some very useful advice from boaters who have actually done the Ribble Link, and you seem well qualified to sort the wheat from the chaff, although it's all academic really. It is how ever worth bearing in mind that just because “we have always done it like that” doesn’t mean it is the best way to do it.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 5, 2024 18:45:32 GMT
You'll get some very useful advice from boaters who have actually done the Ribble Link, and you seem well qualified to sort the wheat from the chaff, although it's all academic really. It is how ever worth bearing in mind that just because “we have always done it like that” doesn’t mean it is the best way to do it. The Tarleton lock is operated by Mayor's Boatyard, I wouldn't pretend to know a hundredth of what they do about local conditions but the ground crew are very friendly and helpful and I'd suggest you direct any questions you have towards them. As an example, on the day I did the northbound crossing, they were doing crossings in both directions as my crossing had been delayed twice by adverse weather. When I asked them why they didn't do bi-directional crossings as a matter of routine they said "Well we could, but it makes for a very long day". I suppose that as someone who pays his licence fee, I could have insisted on them working 13 hour shifts at my behest but I'm insufficiently arrogant and controlling to I suppose.
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