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Post by kris on Sept 8, 2022 7:44:51 GMT
Come on she’s a Tory. So tax cuts for the wealthy, that the rest of us have to pay for.
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Post by brummieboy on Sept 8, 2022 8:32:52 GMT
So we nationalise the utilities and revert to the unaccountable overstaffed, overpaid inefficiency which would result from public ownership that still costs those not on the gravy train a fortune.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2022 9:31:09 GMT
Problem is most people can't differentiate between energy retailers and energy suppliers. It's the suppliers, i.e. Shell, BP, British gas etc, that are making the profits not the independent retailers such as Octopus. The taxing needs to be at source supplier level not at retail level. Any nationalisation needs to be at supplier level not retailer. Companies like Octopus are doing a good job driving us towards renewable sources and properly insulated/heated homes so shouldn't be penalised. Also if the price of renewables were decoupled from gas then prices for some electric would come down and those on green tarriffs might benefit.
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Post by kris on Sept 8, 2022 9:43:53 GMT
Problem is most people can't differentiate between energy retailers and energy suppliers. It's the suppliers, i.e. Shell, BP, British gas etc, that are making the profits not the independent retailers such as Octopus. The taxing needs to be at source supplier level not at retail level. Any nationalisation needs to be at supplier level not retailer. Companies like Octopus are doing a good job driving us towards renewable sources and properly insulated/heated homes so shouldn't be penalised. Also if the price of renewables were decoupled from gas then prices for some electric would come down and those on green tarriffs might benefit. That’s a really good point I’d not thought about before. Apparently 44% of our electricity is generated by renewables so why has the price of that increased? Surely the price of energy generated in country hasn’t been effected by the Ukraine war.
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Post by Telemachus on Sept 8, 2022 9:48:34 GMT
So today's the day the great announcement is to be made how Truss will help pay the fuel bills. Would be good to hear all energy companies are nationalised from lunch time and their profits seized 🤣🤣 Rog Unfortunately that is an unfeasible and naive idea. I suggest you do a bit of research! Firstly what do you mean by “all energy companies?” because it’s not clear. The companies that we pay our bills to (who do not produce the electricity and gas, they merely sell it on) or the oil and gas companies such as BP, Shell etc? No point in nationalising the former because they don’t set the wholesale price. To nationalise the latter you have to buy them, you cannot just steal them from shareholders (especially bearing in mind that most shareholders are pension funds) unless you want a N Korea type of regime. And anyway, you probably aren’t aware that most North Sea oil and gas assets aren’t British owned, the likes of BP and Shell long ago sold off most of their assets. Mostly now owned by foreign companies. So if you are going to seize the assets of US, Canadian, French, Middle Eastern and Far Eastern companies, how well is that going to go down for any future foreign investment in the UK? And anyway the UK has to import about half its gas, so any nationalisation is going to have zero impact on that - if UK wants to buy gas it has to do so on the global market at global market prices. The problem is long term government (of all parties) apathy on energy security, the UK became a net importer of gas in 2004 and that deficit has steadily increased ever since. Old power stations decommissioned, no (well, hardly any) new power stations, putting our eggs into wind power which surprisingly(!)doesn’t work when the wind is light etc etc. Unfortunately there is no easy solution and some illogical chant of “nationalisation” is certainly not one of them, and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding.
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Post by Telemachus on Sept 8, 2022 9:50:05 GMT
Problem is most people can't differentiate between energy retailers and energy suppliers. It's the suppliers, i.e. Shell, BP, British gas etc, that are making the profits not the independent retailers such as Octopus. The taxing needs to be at source supplier level not at retail level. Any nationalisation needs to be at supplier level not retailer. Companies like Octopus are doing a good job driving us towards renewable sources and properly insulated/heated homes so shouldn't be penalised. Also if the price of renewables were decoupled from gas then prices for some electric would come down and those on green tarriffs might benefit. That’s a really good point I’d not thought about before. Apparently 44% of our electricity is generated by renewables so why has the price of that increased? Surely the price of energy generated in country hasn’t been effected by the Ukraine war. This is a good point and it has been discussed and clearly there is mileage in it. However renewables mostly = wind power and that only produces energy sometimes. At other times we are mostly reliant on fossil fuel or nuclear.
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Post by kris on Sept 8, 2022 9:53:20 GMT
That’s a really good point I’d not thought about before. Apparently 44% of our electricity is generated by renewables so why has the price of that increased? Surely the price of energy generated in country hasn’t been effected by the Ukraine war. This is a good point and it has been discussed and clearly there is mileage in it. However renewables mostly = wind power and that only produces energy sometimes. At other times we are mostly reliant on fossil fuel or nuclear. obviously we need gas and coal as well. But that doesn’t alter the fact that the renewable energy’s retail price has increased the same amount as hydro carbon generated electricity. It smacks of profiteering, which has always gone on during times of turmoil. It’s all about asset transfer, small businesses close and get bought up by the bigger ones or their business goes to the larger companies. How many independent restaurants and pubs do you think are going to survive?
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 8, 2022 10:06:17 GMT
This is a good point and it has been discussed and clearly there is mileage in it. However renewables mostly = wind power and that only produces energy sometimes. At other times we are mostly reliant on fossil fuel or nuclear. How many independent restaurants and pubs do you think are going to survive? No pubs needed in an Islamic country. Almost there!
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Post by kris on Sept 8, 2022 10:08:59 GMT
Twat.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2022 10:15:36 GMT
The obvious answer is for people to consume less leccy and gas.
That is the only way forward.
Problem is because of the basic weakness of humans it can never happen unless by force. Very few people would vote for a .gov who announced an upcoming "lower stanard of living"
Silly situation.
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Post by kris on Sept 8, 2022 10:24:38 GMT
Quite difficult to consume less electricity when the powers that be are pushing an electric car revolution. Still, I guess if one is affluent enough to be able to fill the Manor House roof with PV panels then one can go 8 months a year by solar power. The peasants will just have to walk to have their revolt. There’s a huge upsurge in interest in home solar panels and battery banks. Unfortunately pushing prices up for all of us that have been generating our own power for a while.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2022 10:36:02 GMT
I've always done low energy consumption regardless of finances but I suppose this is a bit unusual. As for electric cars yes they are an elephant in the room. At some stage there will have to be a disconnect between electric put into cars and electric put into radiators. Technology can solve this. Cars should always have been a luxury rather than an everyman item. Of course now that people are completely enslaved by the machines it is rather difficult to reverse the situation.
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Post by kris on Sept 8, 2022 10:41:51 GMT
There’s a huge upsurge in interest in home solar panels and battery banks. Unfortunately pushing prices up for all of us that have been generating our own power for a while. Like many things in life though, those on the lower to middling rungs of the ladder will be hit the hardest. Those at the top will not be affected; and will likely find a way to profit from it. The middle ladder rungs, however, appear to be getting closer to the bottom as the ladder sinks into the quick sand. Energy will soon be a luxury, if it isn't already for those that can't generate their own inexpensively. I completely agree, it seems that “the ruling class, “ want us to go back to the Victorian era in lots of ways. It’s looking like the post ww2 continuous improvement of living standards is over, I wonder how long it will be before the work house makes a reappearance? But without armed revolt I can’t see how it’s going to change for the better.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2022 10:44:37 GMT
The system deliberately keeps those who might be interested in revolting moderately happy or diverted by full time labour.
If this changed then it could get interesting.
But it probably won't change.
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Post by kris on Sept 8, 2022 10:44:50 GMT
Boat and caravan dwellers are probably ahead of the curve in terms of being aware of exactly what their energy requirements are and how to go about providing it. I’ve lived off grid for along time over 30 years batteries where always the limiting factor now thanks to lithium that constraint has been removed. Generating your own power definately makes you aware of how much you use
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