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Post by kris on Sept 10, 2023 7:45:24 GMT
Iβve had enough of interacting with idiots.
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Post by dogless on Sept 10, 2023 8:01:55 GMT
It's sad to see that some can't read an opposing view without immediately crying idiot, or worse seeking to abuse or threaten.
The danger for a forum is folks simply don't pass comment for fear of incurring the wrath of those that don't agree.
Trying once to get the discussion back to the point ...
For a change this year, we haven't encountered broken elsans or overflowing bins due simply to good fortune, and I suggest perception of the severity of the problem will be tainted if you've been less fortunate with timing.
It is a fact that the most broken elsan, and most full skips will be emptied at some point (albeit perhaps less often than previously)
There is still a problem of reduced servicing (emptying etc.) of these facilities and no doubt a potential creeping closure policy by C&RT.
I think abuse of the services, often by boaters, gives C&RT an excuse to close them down.
I also believe C&RT management would be happy to surrender the whole process to private enterprise (pay to use at marinas etc.) and use the savings in other areas.
I don't know what the answer is, other than continuing to try and pressure C&RT into maintenance of such services ... but I do believe boaters have responsibility to look after and respect the services too.
Rog
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Post by fi on Sept 10, 2023 8:09:04 GMT
It's sad to see that some can't read an opposing view without immediately crying idiot, or worse seeking to abuse or threaten. The danger for a forum is folks simply don't pass comment for fear of incurring the wrath of those that don't agree. Trying once to get the discussion back to the point ... For a change this year, we haven't encountered broken elsans or overflowing bins due simply to good fortune, and I suggest perception of the severity of the problem will be tainted if you've been less fortunate with timing. It is a fact that the most broken elsan, and most full skips will be emptied at some point (albeit perhaps less often than previously) There is still a problem of reduced servicing (emptying etc.) of these facilities and no doubt a potential creeping closure policy by C&RT.
I think abuse of the services, often by boaters, gives C&RT an excuse to close them down. I also believe C&RT management would be happy to surrender the whole process to private enterprise (pay to use at marinas etc.) and use the savings in other areas. I don't know what the answer is, other than continuing to try and pressure C&RT into maintenance of such services ... but I do believe boaters have responsibility to look after and respect the services too. Rog
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Post by dogless on Sept 10, 2023 8:25:05 GMT
The problem is I don't entirely trust what C&RT publish.
When Autherley Junction elsan was closed (due to vandalism) it was said they were relocating to another site and discussions were ongoing.
Two years later after the boatyard at Compton closed down (leaving nearest elsans at Penkridge, Wheaton Aston and Greensforge) I enquired about the relocation and was told there was never any plan to do so.
I believe the same happened at Hurleston ... originally planned as a relocation but nothing doing.
Rog
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Post by metanoia on Sept 10, 2023 18:00:26 GMT
Sadly, you are right, dogless. There are often now vast distances between services. Genuine CCers do move - that's why we choose to have no home mooring. It's not so much the lack of services which prohibit that movement but often the worry that the next lock or bridge might be broken when you need to access water/shops/elsan/waste disposal, all of which are, of course, accessible on foot - except the water (and I have carried a 20lt container when I've been frozen in and this is an experience I don't wish to repeat too often!). That's when these closures really impact on real boaters - holiday, months away or liveaboards with no home mooring - not the bridge hoppers, cmers or dumpers...
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Post by β on Sept 10, 2023 18:06:39 GMT
Perhaps the CRT are working on turning the heat up a bit.
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
Living off grid comes with compromises. I am pretty sure it has already been pointed out that they have no obligation to provide the services.
The environmental elf argument is of course interesting. Shit in the cut and rubbish in the hedge.
The point is both of these things are criminal behaviour.
There could be a move away from included-in-licence-fee towards private provision or let people sort their shit out themselves.
It isn't actually such a bad idea if you think about it from the point of view of the CRT.
It makes a lot of sense.
If the question about environmental elf gets asked maybe some answers will turn up and things can change.
I think we are likely to see private providers turning up in all sorts of places on the system. It makes sense.
Anyone can see that bins and bin stores stacked up with residential rubbish and waste generated by working on boats should not be dealt with by the navigation authority. Similarly sewage production from intensively used boats with no intention of using paid for pumpout services should not be up to the nav authority to deal with.
There is no logical argument for either of these services other than if they are paid for.
There has always been a theory BW and CRT are trying to drive people towards marinas. Maybe it is true.
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Post by β on Sept 10, 2023 18:18:41 GMT
I have always maintained that a "CC" licence provides good value.Β (If you can be arsed to check back I have been saying this for many years). I do not expect those who pay for a mooring to subsidise my chosen lifestyle in any way.Β In fact, I find it extremely unfair on them. However, I do agree with kris and others that the demise of services is worrying and to the detriment of ALL boaters. Fairness is irrelevant. It means nothing and should have no place in policy making. Bin and shit services don't negatively impact all boaters. It disproportionately impacts people who have chosen to take advantage of the cc licence and move as little as possible. It doesn't matter what you or I do. That is a worthless diversion from the topic.. The CRT is apparently in the shit financially and someone in the accounts department is having a look at things. Bean counters rule the world. Coming to a canal near you.
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Post by Trina on Sept 10, 2023 18:58:54 GMT
Sadly, you are right, dogless. There are often now vast distances between services. Genuine CCers do move - that's why we choose to have no home mooring. It's not so much the lack of services which prohibit that movement but often the worry that the next lock or bridge might be broken when you need to access water/shops/elsan/waste disposal, all of which are, of course, accessible on foot - except the water (and I have carried a 20lt container when I've been frozen in and this is an experience I don't wish to repeat too often!). That's when these closures really impact on real boaters - holiday, months away or liveaboards with no home mooring - not the bridge hoppers, cmers or dumpers... As you know Met,we're not liveaboards but like to spend about 5 months a year out & about including Christmas/ New Year.We have one of those caravan roller water containers in the Cratch(always think cratch sounds a bit pervyπ)& as we have a pumpout loo,an emergency khazi is in the engine hole ! We bought that after we got as far as Brum after Xmas at Alvechurch & got iced in !P stayed with the boat & I went home on the bus as I was still teaching back then.Great memories.π
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Post by β on Sept 10, 2023 19:05:32 GMT
I've always thought cratch was a bit rude too.
It sounds like slang for something.
I wonder what the origin of the word is.
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Post by metanoia on Sept 10, 2023 19:06:06 GMT
Happy days!
Exactly why I can't agree with a's assertion that
"Bin and shit services don't negatively impact all boaters. It disproportionately impacts people who have chosen to take advantage of the cc licence and move as little as possible".
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Post by β on Sept 10, 2023 19:09:15 GMT
A quick search suggests cratch is from the same root as crib and creche..
Maybe the woman during early child rearing was given her own space at the front of the boat to be away from the man and any older children thereby avoiding discord and social problems.
The joys of living in confined spaces.
Were I less tall I would have opted to live in a back cabin many yars ago but being over 6ft makes it rather awkward.
Do like small spaces.
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Post by metanoia on Sept 10, 2023 19:10:22 GMT
Sadly, you are right, dogless . There are often now vast distances between services. Genuine CCers do move - that's why we choose to have no home mooring. It's not so much the lack of services which prohibit that movement but often the worry that the next lock or bridge might be broken when you need to access water/shops/elsan/waste disposal, all of which are, of course, accessible on foot - except the water (and I have carried a 20lt container when I've been frozen in and this is an experience I don't wish to repeat too often!). That's when these closures really impact on real boaters - holiday, months away or liveaboards with no home mooring - not the bridge hoppers, cmers or dumpers... As you know Met,we're not liveaboards but like to spend about 5 months a year out & about including Christmas/ New Year.We have one of those caravan roller water containers in the Cratch(always think cratch sounds a bit pervyπ)& as we have a pumpout loo,an emergency khazi is in the engine hole ! We bought that after we got as far as Brum after Xmas at Alvechurch & got iced in !P stayed with the boat & I went home on the bus as I was still teaching back then.Great memories.π I think you must be in cahoots with/on the same page as my friend - a pre-school teacher - who gets the giggles about my "cratch" or its cover.....
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Post by Mr Stabby on Sept 10, 2023 19:18:38 GMT
Sadly, you are right, dogless . There are often now vast distances between services. Genuine CCers do move - that's why we choose to have no home mooring. It's not so much the lack of services which prohibit that movement but often the worry that the next lock or bridge might be broken when you need to access water/shops/elsan/waste disposal, all of which are, of course, accessible on foot - except the water (and I have carried a 20lt container when I've been frozen in and this is an experience I don't wish to repeat too often!). That's when these closures really impact on real boaters - holiday, months away or liveaboards with no home mooring - not the bridge hoppers, cmers or dumpers... (always think cratch sounds a bit pervyπ) It's a portmanteau word formed from "crutch" and "snatch".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2023 19:29:47 GMT
Happy days! Exactly why I can't agree with a's assertion that "Bin and shit services don't negatively impact all boaters. It disproportionately impacts people who have chosen to take advantage of the cc licence and move as little as possible". I don't agree with his rather silly assertion either, and neither will others. Boaters from all sub sets are campaigning against the policy, because it matters to them, and eventually CRT will cave. What is apparent and quite surprising is the IWA are starting to criticise CRT at government level, which I never expected to happen, and this will no doubt bring about change. In fact the recent funding package has t&c's with it which I'm lead to believe came about from the IWA leaning on the APPG.
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Post by β on Sept 10, 2023 19:38:10 GMT
It could get interesting if the IWA have some clout.
Someone on the canalworld forum mentioned the terms and conditions around the funding package. Can't remember what they were.
Do you know the details Mr Bot?
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