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Post by Aloysius on Jan 10, 2024 17:36:12 GMT
Yeah, talk about taking the most expeditious route to a swift conclusion or what. I am afraid, I think the conclusion reached is more important to some than any fairness ---- and I am not talking about the post masters and mistresses. What do you find unsatisfactory about quashing criminal records and handing over a big pile of cash?
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Post by Jim on Jan 10, 2024 17:51:24 GMT
Update on r4 last night, one victim was only young, convicted, had her life ruined, she rightly said "stolen", just one of many. Full refund of any expenditure plus compo for loss of earnings and more for having life ruined, for all those affected. Any legal fees should be on top of the last lot, not out of it.
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Post by on Jan 10, 2024 17:56:00 GMT
In this sort of situation the lawyers will be the winners because their moral compass is askew.
Its normal. This won't change. The justice system is bent.
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Post by tonyb on Jan 10, 2024 19:02:39 GMT
I am afraid, I think the conclusion reached is more important to some than any fairness ---- and I am not talking about the post masters and mistresses. What do you find unsatisfactory about quashing criminal records and handing over a big pile of cash?
Once the victims have had their convictions quashed and the big pile of cash has been given, there seems to me to be good reason to believe any attempt to punish those responsible will be conveniently forgotten.
If the big pipe of cash started with a full refund of what the PO extorted from the victims plus (say) 5% with more to come once a true value of what the victims lost and suffered then I would tend to agree with you, but we see the government trying to buy their responsibilities off by offering lesser amounts.
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Post by tonyb on Jan 10, 2024 19:04:11 GMT
Update on r4 last night, one victim was only young, convicted, had her life ruined, she rightly said "stolen", just one of many. Full refund of any expenditure plus compo for loss of earnings and more for having life ruined, for all those affected. Any legal fees should be on top of the last lot, not out of it. Fully agree, but I doubt it will happen.
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Post by kris on Jan 10, 2024 19:16:43 GMT
Yes stealing money off people is a criminal offence. People who steal should be made to face justice.
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Post by Aloysius on Jan 10, 2024 19:42:45 GMT
What do you find unsatisfactory about quashing criminal records and handing over a big pile of cash?
Once the victims have had their convictions quashed and the big pile of cash has been given, there seems to me to be good reason to believe any attempt to punish those responsible will be conveniently forgotten.
If the big pipe of cash started with a full refund of what the PO extorted from the victims plus (say) 5% with more to come once a true value of what the victims lost and suffered then I would tend to agree with you, but we see the government trying to buy their responsibilities off by offering lesser amounts.
I have no doubts in some cases the saga will still be making headlines five years from now. But the important thing is the gov has abandoned all attempts at dodging blame. The rest is just haggling. I bet a great many will accept the 75k.
I noticed Venells gave a non-apology apology to the press; it wil be interesting to see what happens to her but I see it as largely inconsequential. I expect there will be a fine; plausible deniability is on her side. Similarly Fujitsu are going to have to answer some tough questions but you can't send a company to prison. The Post Office still uses Horizon and a slew of other Fujitsu products are in use in other sectors which makes it all a tad tricky.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 10, 2024 19:53:31 GMT
Once the victims have had their convictions quashed and the big pile of cash has been given, there seems to me to be good reason to believe any attempt to punish those responsible will be conveniently forgotten.
If the big pipe of cash started with a full refund of what the PO extorted from the victims plus (say) 5% with more to come once a true value of what the victims lost and suffered then I would tend to agree with you, but we see the government trying to buy their responsibilities off by offering lesser amounts.
I have no doubts in some cases the saga will still be making headlines five years from now. But the important thing is the gov has abandoned all attempts at dodging blame. The rest is just haggling. I bet a great many will accept the 75k.
I noticed Venells gave a non-apology apology to the press; it wil be interesting to see what happens to her but I see it as largely inconsequential. I expect there will be a fine; plausible deniability is on her side. Similarly Fujitsu are going to have to answer some tough questions but you can't send a company to prison. The Post Office still uses Horizon and a slew of other Fujitsu products are in use in other sectors which makes it all a tad tricky.Vennells will be fine, she has her god on her side and place in heaven already booked. She has asked St Peter to get a towel down for her already.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 10, 2024 20:08:57 GMT
I think it is a bit naive to think that lots of PO head office employees etc will be prosecuted. Big organisation tend to believe themselves. Group culture is surprisingly powerful. Just look at how people fall for religion! Probably most of the individuals involved didn’t think they were doing anything wrong, and therefore there is no case for prosecution for perjury etc. I would draw the line at the head honcho, whose job it is to set the culture of the organisation. She needs crucifying.
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Post by on Jan 10, 2024 20:12:48 GMT
Once the victims have had their convictions quashed and the big pile of cash has been given, there seems to me to be good reason to believe any attempt to punish those responsible will be conveniently forgotten.
If the big pipe of cash started with a full refund of what the PO extorted from the victims plus (say) 5% with more to come once a true value of what the victims lost and suffered then I would tend to agree with you, but we see the government trying to buy their responsibilities off by offering lesser amounts.
I have no doubts in some cases the saga will still be making headlines five years from now. But the important thing is the gov has abandoned all attempts at dodging blame. The rest is just haggling. I bet a great many will accept the 75k.
I noticed Venells gave a non-apology apology to the press; it wil be interesting to see what happens to her but I see it as largely inconsequential. I expect there will be a fine; plausible deniability is on her side. Similarly Fujitsu are going to have to answer some tough questions but you can't send a company to prison. The Post Office still uses Horizon and a slew of other Fujitsu products are in use in other sectors which makes it all a tad tricky.I wonder if ICL will get looked at. I recall their rather prestigious HQ at Hedsor in the late 90s.
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Post by on Jan 10, 2024 20:18:40 GMT
Russian privatisation thieves were sanctioned. Why not do the same with UK privatisation thieves? Wouldn't it be funny if a Tory .gov had a go at the privatisation thieves. Why does one think it won't happen.
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Post by dogless on Jan 18, 2024 17:56:42 GMT
I've been 'dipping' into the live coverage of the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry.
Not very fast paced or exciting but utterly enthralling and horrific to be honest.
I realise no one will end up 'in the dock' ultimately (defence will claim it's impossible to have a fair trial and perhaps correctly) but there is real malice and ill will evidenced against sub postmasters, both from Fujitsu and Post Office management, not simply a 'circling of the wagons' to protect their brands.
Rog
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Post by fi on Jan 18, 2024 18:07:53 GMT
Not watched any of the enquiry - whole thing annoys me too much...
However, are you talking about historical malice or current malice?
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Post by dogless on Jan 18, 2024 18:35:06 GMT
It's clear from evidence given dating back to 2006 / 2009 that, within Fujitsu and Post Office management the flaws with the computer system were known and being discussed and covered internally.
A 2006 e mail between two Fujitsu managers the day before sub postmaster Mr Castleton appeared at the High Court, was quoted as saying
"That Castleton is a nasty chap and will be all out to rubbish the FJ(Fujitsu) name."
This written by a manager who Mr Castleton says he's never written to, met, or spoken to by phone.
Where does such malice come from ?
Rog
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jan 18, 2024 18:40:11 GMT
Where does such malice come from ? Company ethos. Fujitsu are Japs and Japs are renowned for their cruelty. He's just lucky they didn't turn up at his place and chop his head off with a Samurai sword.
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