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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 8:33:19 GMT
Thanks Gazza. All makes sense it was Nicks use of the word "her family" which confused me as i tend to think of her family as the outlaws but of course her family are my children and if she or I were to die I would obviously want the kids to inherit everything. Marrying would make no difference as far as I can tell. I would never fight like that with my children anyway even if they did have a claim on half my assets - they can have them !
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 8:57:44 GMT
I'm not so sure, I think her blood relatives (Kin) can over rule any of your wishes, as Nick has said, having not been in that position I've not looked too deep into it, but the issues Nick has raised do ring bells.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 9:34:29 GMT
Next of kin is children. My mother died with no will. Her assets are shared between me and my two sisters. Other relatives don't come into it.
As far as my own children are concerned I have parental responsibility by virtue of being on the birth certs. I don't think this has been the case always which could be where issues would arise? Definitely a bit complicated.
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Post by Telemachus on Feb 22, 2017 9:54:24 GMT
I think it will depend on how old the children are. Consider the case where you and she spilt up after years of living together though not married. If she wants to be awkward, she can get half of all your "stuff", house, pension, boat, savings etc. Then when she dies, her next of kin inherit it, maybe her siblings or parents. So in principle you could imagine concactenating those things into one event and see that her estate is entitled to half your stuff and her estate then goes to her family.
Yes of course, having children does change things but if they are under 18 then it could get complicated.
So if you aren't going to get married, at least ensure you have proper and bullet proof wills.
if you are married, whatever you leave each other is exempt from IHT. If not, you have to pay IHT for stuff above the threashold and if you have an expensive house, that alone can push you over the limit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 10:01:43 GMT
I think it will depend on how old the children are. Consider the case where you and she spilt up after years of living together though not married. If she wants to be awkward, when can get half of all your "stuff", house, pension, boat, savings etc. Then when she dies, her next of kin inherit it, maybe her siblings or parents. So in principle you could imagine concactenating those things into one event and see that her estate is entitled to half your stuff and her estate then goes to her family. Yes of course, having children does change things but if they are under 18 then it could get complicated. So if you aren't going to get married, at least ensure you have proper and bullet proof wills. if you are married, whatever you leave each other is exempt from IHT. If not, you have to pay IHT for stuff above the threashold and if you have an expensive house, that alone can push you over the limit. Like as in agree, but you probably knew that!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 10:10:16 GMT
I think it will depend on how old the children are. Consider the case where you and she spilt up after years of living together though not married. If she wants to be awkward, when can get half of all your "stuff", house, pension, boat, savings etc. Then when she dies, her next of kin inherit it, maybe her siblings or parents. So in principle you could imagine concactenating those things into one event and see that her estate is entitled to half your stuff and her estate then goes to her family. Yes of course, having children does change things but if they are under 18 then it could get complicated. So if you aren't going to get married, at least ensure you have proper and bullet proof wills. if you are married, whatever you leave each other is exempt from IHT. If not, you have to pay IHT for stuff above the threashold and if you have an expensive house, that alone can push you over the limit. Thats all interesting From what I can gather cohabiting partners do not actually have any claim to the other persons assets. Married couples definitely do. So if you are worried about asset protection (I am not) then marrying is a mistake. I don't know why you think when she dies her assets would go to her siblings. This is factually incorrect. Either she would write a will leaving everything to her children or possibly to a new partner/husband but thats less likely. or if she dies intestate and unmarried then it will go to the children as they are NEXT of kin. Thats how it works.
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Post by dyertribe on Feb 22, 2017 10:13:06 GMT
fwiw, whilst I agree in principle a normal couple should be able to be in a CP - WHAT a waste of time and everyone's money their "fight" for equality is. WE are only in a CP because at the time we did it, it was the only legal option available to "easily" ensure if I died on the operating table, Andy would get my local authority death grant and widows pension... pure and simple. In our case, we just did the paper work with 1 witness each followed by a quick drink at the pub and back to work by 2 the same day... HAD marriage been available, we'd have just done the paperwork there too. We did it in secret so as avoid the cringe factor and subsequent bad feelings that would have arisen as a result of his family attending and mine being unwilling to. We'd have done it in secret if we'd have been able to get married too. Why the secrecy? - well a side from the reason mentioned, having spent much of our lives attending OTHER peoples weddings, as much as I might "care" - "love" - "respect" them... there was rarely an occasion when I thought 'oh that's good - a party to go to but FIRST I need to spend a load of cash on suitable clothing, hotels, presents and then transport and drinks etc... ergo best part of 400 quid a time for something SOMEONE else wanted to do.' That may sound tight but over the years the "cost" has mounted up - ok so I have worn the same suit a couple of times but you know what I mean. AS for "upgrading" to marriage - I don't feel the need ... we have the legal protection we need and now our wills are in place, what's the point. SHOULD the CP be abolished, I wonder if they would rescind our CP "licence" and replace it free of charge with a wedding certificate? - nah... we'd no doubt get another bill. so back to the ops original pondering, that couple have too much time on their hands and could be doing something GOOD for people such as walking old peoples dogs or spending a bit of time chatting with a lonely neighbour rather than parading on tv wanting equality! Just saying.... Just need to get those Lasting Powers of Attorney done now then .........
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Post by dyertribe on Feb 22, 2017 10:18:28 GMT
Yeabut put the psychobabble and antiestablishmentarianism aside, it all comes back to security when one of you is incapacitated, how will you feel if her family tell you to fuck off as she lies unconscious in hospital? And then they send the bailiffs round demanding half of all your things after she dies? Have to admit I did not know that her family would have a claim on my assets if she died !! We have no shared financial assets but the idea of them being able to claim directly from me in the event of her death sounds very worrying. Is that really right? If so its extraordinary. Well, her family will not be able to claim directly but she can claim under the 1975 Family and Dependants act that she has a right to a share of your estate.(a Will can help here) the grey area will be items in your home, how do you prove who bought them and who is entitled to keep them unless you keep every receipt?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 10:20:36 GMT
I'm sure my children would have a claim as dependents and thats right and proper obviously but I don't see how other family members can be involved unless they are explicitly mentioned in a will.
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Post by dyertribe on Feb 22, 2017 10:21:51 GMT
I'm not so sure, I think her blood relatives (Kin) can over rule any of your wishes, as Nick has said, having not been in that position I've not looked too deep into it, but the issues Nick has raised do ring bells. Yes the blood relatives will have the say in wishes for funeral etc.
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Post by dyertribe on Feb 22, 2017 10:25:27 GMT
I think it will depend on how old the children are. Consider the case where you and she spilt up after years of living together though not married. If she wants to be awkward, when can get half of all your "stuff", house, pension, boat, savings etc. Then when she dies, her next of kin inherit it, maybe her siblings or parents. So in principle you could imagine concactenating those things into one event and see that her estate is entitled to half your stuff and her estate then goes to her family. Yes of course, having children does change things but if they are under 18 then it could get complicated. So if you aren't going to get married, at least ensure you have proper and bullet proof wills. if you are married, whatever you leave each other is exempt from IHT. If not, you have to pay IHT for stuff above the threashold and if you have an expensive house, that alone can push you over the limit. Thats all interesting From what I can gather cohabiting partners do not actually have any claim to the other persons assets. Married couples definitely do. So if you are worried about asset protection (I am not) then marrying is a mistake. I don't know why you think when she dies her assets would go to her siblings. This is factually incorrect. Either she would write a will leaving everything to her children or possibly to a new partner/husband but thats less likely. or if she dies intestate and unmarried then it will go to the children as they are NEXT of kin. Thats how it works. That is if you HAVE children. Again there is a possible claim under the 1975 Families and Dependants Act.
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Post by dyertribe on Feb 22, 2017 10:26:47 GMT
I'm a Will Writer BTW!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 10:26:48 GMT
I'm not so sure, I think her blood relatives (Kin) can over rule any of your wishes, as Nick has said, having not been in that position I've not looked too deep into it, but the issues Nick has raised do ring bells. Yes the blood relatives will have the say in wishes for funeral etc. I had a feeling this was correct, so in the case of an unmarried couple with children (minors) who are happy together, one dies, the deceased's next of kin would then take over the responsibility of funeral arrangements etc unless there were strict instructions (lasting power of attorney, will etc) in place to prevent that being the default.
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Post by dyertribe on Feb 22, 2017 10:32:03 GMT
Yes the blood relatives will have the say in wishes for funeral etc. I had a feeling this was correct, so in the case of an unmarried couple with children (minors) who are happy together, one dies, the deceased adul'st next of kin would then take over the responsibility of funeral arrangements etc unless there were strict instructions (lasting power of attorney etc) in place to prevent that being the default. It would depend upon the relatives, many would (and do) let the partner get on with it, it depends upon the "dynamics" of the relationship between the relatives and the partner. A will appointing executors would solve this. Lasting Powers of Attorney end on death so it would be the executor of relative that would be in charge. Basically, and I'm going to shout, IF YOU'RE COHABITING YOU NEED TO MAKE A WILL, YESTERDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! There, I feel better now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 10:32:07 GMT
I'm sure my children would have a claim as dependents and thats right and proper obviously but I don't see how other family members can be involved unless they are explicitly mentioned in a will. Children cannot be expected to arrange funerals - if you are not married (or in a civil partnership) you are not your partners next of kin. Imagine you've had a massive falling out with your partners family, your partner dies, her family absolutely refuse to allow you to be involved with or at her funeral. The children don't come into it as they are minors.
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