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Post by kris on Nov 20, 2018 14:17:43 GMT
Last time I looked kerosene was 50p/lt on 500lts. So I would have thought it's still cheaper even after adding oil. Well it will be if you follow gardners instructions. What was gas oil in comparison at that time, kris ? I seem to recall it being 72-73p/lt again on 500lts. I was thinking of fitting a 500lt tank, but it's very difficult to find anyone who will deliver over water.
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Post by peterboat on Nov 20, 2018 14:22:45 GMT
I have a tank at the boatyard {tullys old one] when I inquired about red diesel they didnt want to know, I have bought red diesel for years with no issues but now days it is getting more difficult. I can buy Kero because that can go into the whispergen and the bubble stove, and in the new year will buy 1000 litres, the plus side is its way cheaper than red and its cleaner in both my applications. <iframe width="21.019999999999982" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 21.019999999999982px; height: 3.5600000000000023px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_78619271" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="21.019999999999982" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 21.02px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 994px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_71066722" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="21.019999999999982" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 21.02px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 118px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_86365986" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="21.019999999999982" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 21.02px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 994px; top: 118px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_97083179" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.720000000000027" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 20.720000000000027px; height: 3.5600000000000023px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_33615111" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.720000000000027" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 20.72px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 979px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_13749799" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.720000000000027" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 20.72px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 118px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_45472640" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.720000000000027" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 20.72px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 979px; top: 118px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_56554672" scrolling="no"></iframe> Question is though, Peter, does Kero still work out cheaper than gas oil after you've added the necessary 1% - 2% lube oil to it to protect the F.I. equipment from the greater rates of wear that neat Kero gives ? The whispergen is a sterling engine so it needs no lube, kero is better because its hotter than diesel plus less hydrocarbons because there is no oil. The bubble stove same applies less cleaning of the burner because no oil present. I have no engine as I am converting to electric to get the 25%discount on the license plus I always knew that diesel would be done for in the long run
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Post by TonyDunkley on Nov 20, 2018 14:29:45 GMT
What was gas oil in comparison at that time, kris ? I seem to recall it being 72-73p/lt again on 500lts. I was thinking of fitting a 500lt tank, but it's very difficult to find anyone who will deliver over water. Was that gas oil (red) price from a oil suppliers or from a boatyard/fuel boat ? Some oil companies certainly do make up problems about delivering to boats, . . but somebody must be delivering direct to all these 'fuel boats'.
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Post by kris on Nov 20, 2018 14:33:15 GMT
I seem to recall it being 72-73p/lt again on 500lts. I was thinking of fitting a 500lt tank, but it's very difficult to find anyone who will deliver over water. Was that gas oil (red) price from a oil suppliers or from a boatyard/fuel boat ? Some oil companies certainly do make up problems about delivering to boats, . . but somebody must be delivering direct to all these 'fuel boats'. it was from an oil company and yes for red. I think a lot of these diesel boats will have their own bulk tanks on shore. Then decant to there boat. Or the fact is these oil companies won't do it for new customers.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Nov 20, 2018 14:35:28 GMT
<iframe width="21.019999999999982" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 21.019999999999982px; height: 3.5600000000000023px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_78619271" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="21.019999999999982" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 21.02px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 994px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_71066722" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="21.019999999999982" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 21.02px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 118px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_86365986" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="21.019999999999982" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 21.02px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 994px; top: 118px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_97083179" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.720000000000027" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 20.720000000000027px; height: 3.5600000000000023px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_33615111" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.720000000000027" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 20.72px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 979px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_13749799" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.720000000000027" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 20.72px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 118px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_45472640" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.720000000000027" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 20.72px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 979px; top: 118px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_56554672" scrolling="no"></iframe> Question is though, Peter, does Kero still work out cheaper than gas oil after you've added the necessary 1% - 2% lube oil to it to protect the F.I. equipment from the greater rates of wear that neat Kero gives ? The whispergen is a sterling engine so it needs no lube, kero is better because its hotter than diesel plus less hydrocarbons because there is no oil. The bubble stove same applies less cleaning of the burner because no oil present. I have no engine as I am converting to electric to get the 25%discount on the license plus I always knew that diesel would be done for in the long run That's interesting, Peter, . . I didn't know that someone had finally got round to putting that Sterling engine design to good use. How does fuel consumption compare with conventional C.I. or S.I. engines ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2018 14:40:39 GMT
Was that gas oil (red) price from a oil suppliers or from a boatyard/fuel boat ? Some oil companies certainly do make up problems about delivering to boats, . . but somebody must be delivering direct to all these 'fuel boats'. it was from an oil company and yes for red. I think a lot of these diesel boats will have their own bulk tanks on shore. Then decant to there boat. Or the fact is these oil companies won't do it for new customers. Its a bit random. My neighbour has 3x205lt barrels sometimes they refuse to fill them as it is on the pontoon other times they do it. Its does not appear to be a fixed thing. I reckon they aren't meant to do it but some do anyway because they want the business. In this case it is a residential address which might help.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Nov 20, 2018 14:42:37 GMT
Was that gas oil (red) price from a oil suppliers or from a boatyard/fuel boat ? Some oil companies certainly do make up problems about delivering to boats, . . but somebody must be delivering direct to all these 'fuel boats'. . . . . . . I think a lot of these diesel boats will have their own bulk tanks on shore. Then decant to there boat. Or the fact is these oil companies won't do it for new customers. I've got round this problem in the past by getting them to deliver into barrels on shore alongside or nearby.
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Post by kris on Nov 20, 2018 14:47:07 GMT
. . . . . . I think a lot of these diesel boats will have their own bulk tanks on shore. Then decant to there boat. Or the fact is these oil companies won't do it for new customers. I've got round this problem in the past by getting them to deliver into barrels on shore alongside or nearby. yes I've thought of getting a bundled tank that I could lift on and off my back deck. But then I don't use huge amounts of diesel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2018 14:52:59 GMT
As any boats carrying and supplying coal, diesel and bog fluid are commercial boats and presumably will continue buying red diesel (gas oil) to run on themselves, the choice of what to supply to their customers will be theirs alone to make. Personally speaking, if I was operating one of these boats, I would restrict myself to supplying only (red) gas oil for power generation and heating, and out of concern for my customer's safety and the shortcomings of the BSS with regard to best practice re. piping layout, primary and secondary filtering, and onboard/built-in fuel cleaning/re-circulating systems, I'd probably produce a small, informative leaflet on the subject. And some information on the use of day tanks. Day tanks are a great idea. If I was specifying a new boat I would include day tanks for engines and generators.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2018 14:55:11 GMT
I've got round this problem in the past by getting them to deliver into barrels on shore alongside or nearby. yes I've thought of getting a bundled tank that I could lift on and off my back deck. But then I don't use huge amounts of diesel. That would be good get a tank and lift it using a car crane or hiab. I wonder what happens if you end up dropping it in the cut. I mean what happens about pollution. Would the EA chase you for a lot of money?
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Post by kris on Nov 20, 2018 14:58:34 GMT
yes I've thought of getting a bundled tank that I could lift on and off my back deck. But then I don't use huge amounts of diesel. That would be good get a tank and lift it using a car crane or hiab. I wonder what happens if you end up dropping it in the cut. I mean what happens about pollution. Would the EA chase you for a lot of money? I have a hiab. As for dropping it why would I want to do that? Trust you to think the worst.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Nov 20, 2018 15:02:57 GMT
What was gas oil in comparison at that time, kris ? I seem to recall it being 72-73p/lt . . . . . . We really could do with a time-machine. Somewhere amongst the Dunkley archives I think there are some old receipts from 'oiling-up' from Wiilow Wren's yard at Braunston in the 1960's. By that time the old Willow Wren Canal Carrying Co. had been re-formed into Willow Wren Canal Transport Services with all the boatmen self-employed, hiring their boats from the company, and being paid increased tonnage rates. The company charged 1s.10d (one shilling and 10 pence - a shade over 9p in today's money) per gallon for diesel, and we were all outraged when they put it up to 2 shillings a gallon (10p) in 1968.
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Post by kris on Nov 20, 2018 15:07:18 GMT
I seem to recall it being 72-73p/lt . . . . . . We really could do with a time-machine. Somewhere amongst the Dunkley archives I think there are some old receipts from 'oiling-up' from Wiilow Wren's yard at Braunston in the 1960's. By that time the old Willow Wren Canal Carrying Co. had been re-formed into Willow Wren Canal Transport Services with all the boatmen self-employed, hiring their boats from the company, and being paid increased tonnage rates. The company charged 1s.10d (one shilling and 10 pence - a shade over 9p in today's money) per gallon for diesel, and we were all outraged when they put it up to 2 shillings a gallon (10p) in 1968. yes a time traveling device would be good. But I can think of better things to do with it than buy cheap diesel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2018 15:07:20 GMT
yes I've thought of getting a bundled tank that I could lift on and off my back deck. But then I don't use huge amounts of diesel. That would be good get a tank and lift it using a car crane or hiab. I wonder what happens if you end up dropping it in the cut. I mean what happens about pollution. Would the EA chase you for a lot of money? Mate of mine had 1000 litres go awol (possibly due to a boater cutting into the fuel line), £50 k was the clean up bill (made worse by EA inaction initially according to mate), make sure you have insurance if you wish to store large(ish) volumes of fuel....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2018 15:07:24 GMT
i think it was about 60p a gallon when I first bought red for a boat in the early 90s.
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