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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 19:19:33 GMT
I suppose in the end it will come down to how much the younger generation will tolerate from the elder. From the moment they leave uni they are saddled with an enormous amount of debt and little chance of owning a home. And, if it ever comes to anarchy, us old farts haven’t got a chance! At least they will have a record of the blame trail and those who supported the end of democracy. Let’s put it this way, as someone who supports democracy, I no longer feel safe. 1st past the post Party political Parliamentary democracy is a terrible thing IMO.
A political party can gain control of everybody's futures even when more people nationally have voted for a different party and/or a larger percentage of voters who definitely didn't want those barstewards who won to wield absolute power over their lives. The big sweeping changes the winning parties make more often than not never appeared in their manifestos. Promises made in those manifestos are routinely broken. Too much time is spent undoing things the previous party in charge did, and making unnecessarily large changes and commitments in order that they become prohibitively expensive or legally impossible to undo. The few hundred MPs who make up that overall majority are people who have been chosen or approved by a small central cadre of whichever party they think they have the best chance of succeeding with, or a local self serving party cadre towing the central cadre line. I wonder how many stand in their home areas and how many fostered out by their central cadres? One of my sister in laws worked tirelessly for New Labour when they were flavour of the time and now she's a conservative councillor. When asked how she squared that she said "there's no point working for the losers, I'm just doing what anyone with any sense does if they want to progress." I think she'd like to be an MP and sadly I believe her moral free view of political life is realistic and not untypical. When they get to parliament, they can say more or less what they like, but they must vote as they're told to by their party Central cadre. Democracy in action - MPs sometimes voting against their beliefs and often voting against the wishes of the majority of their constituants who I believe they are supposed to represent? Are we happy that whenever something that actually matters is put to the vote our local MPs put the wishes of their party central cadre ahead of their constituants? They don't have any choice, tow the line or F off, we'll get another one. Voting against your party whip is allowed when it will not effect the outcome either way of course but what's the point other than theatre? If we really must have this party political constituency-unrepresentative style of faux democracy, it would be a start if the number of number of MPs of each flavour was the same proportion as their national vote. It would still be sh1t though. I think the most irksome result of our system is the black and white choice of being governed by a gang of robber barons or a bunch of lefties stuck in the 70's. God help us. I agree with a lot of this but let’s not forget that proper democracy means ‘the people’ have the power. I totally agree that we have been living in a fake democracy for a long time. However the next step is to remove the last remaining part of democracy, which is to remove the peoples vote. Once this happens we are one step towards a dictatorship. Once you take away choice, you remove freedom. I’m not sure how far the pendulum will swing before we see action on the streets, but I doubt it would be long. After all the majority voted to leave the dictatorship called the EU state.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 19:44:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 20:03:45 GMT
After all the majority voted to leave the dictatorship called the EU state. Except that they didn't. Only something like 37 percent of the actual voting public voted to leave the EU. Surely it would be reasonable to assume that those people who did not bother to vote could not give a toss ie effectively voted for the status quo. It would be so much simpler if that was how a voluntary voting system worked.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 20:21:10 GMT
After all the majority voted to leave the dictatorship called the EU state. Except that they didn't. Only something like 37 percent of the actual voting public voted to leave the EU. Surely it would be reasonable to assume that those people who did not bother to vote could not give a toss ie effectively voted for the status quo. It would be so much simpler if that was how a voluntary voting system worked. Not that old chestnut again! Nobody knows how those who didn’t (or couldn’t) vote would vote now over 3 years later. It’s pure speculation but as I said earlier, thanks to the delay, people are waking up to realising what it might mean to lose our last thread of democracy (which is a much bigger issue than Brexit). Then again if one is connected closely with the ruling classes then one may not care much for a people’s democracy...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 20:31:55 GMT
I wasn't referring to how people would vote now. Fact is that a fairly large proportion of people did not vote. Voting is made quite easy even if you have mobility problems etc you get looked after. I suspect the percentage of eligible voters who were actually unable to vote is minute.
Eta but it seems obvious that people who were able to vote but chose not to should be counted as voting for Status Quo.
Either that or conscription. Maybe that would work ?
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Post by ianali on Sept 4, 2019 20:51:48 GMT
I wasn't referring to how people would vote now. Fact is that a fairly large proportion of people did not vote. Voting is made quite easy even if you have mobility problems etc you get looked after. I suspect the percentage of eligible voters who were actually unable to vote is minute. Eta but it seems obvious that people who were able to vote but chose not to should be counted as voting for Status Quo. Either that or conscription. Maybe that would work ? Dads army 😳
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 21:25:14 GMT
I decline to discuss the matter further with a clown Jim. All parties agreed the referendum result would be binding. A huge majority in parliament passed article 50. Their self interest has been clearly demonstrated by the speed of thought and action THIS WEEK as opposed to the speed of thought an action on behalf of the MAJORITY who voted leave. Politics now revolts and disgusts me in equal measure ... but individuals who are beguiled by their nonsense appalls me even more. Rog
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 21:58:36 GMT
I wasn't referring to how people would vote now. Fact is that a fairly large proportion of people did not vote. Voting is made quite easy even if you have mobility problems etc you get looked after. I suspect the percentage of eligible voters who were actually unable to vote is minute. Eta but it seems obvious that people who were able to vote but chose not to should be counted as voting for Status Quo. Either that or conscription. Maybe that would work ? Yes. I have wondered what the millions, who were conscripted during the two world wars, would think about the current threat to the freedom they fought and died for? They didn’t have the same insight we now have thanks to the information revolution.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 5, 2019 4:10:18 GMT
All those who 'went over the top' to their certain and violent death because some rich people told them to. Just why are Britain's clown politicians getting away with their nonsense today? Oh... just get another tattoo and aspire to get yourself on Big Brother.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 5:28:52 GMT
Not happy about this, would anyone care to suggest how this is democracy?
Boris has called ‘people power to force an election’. That sounds pretty democratic to me. There is also talk of the government voting no confidence in itself, which when you think about it, is not surprising by the way it’s acted over the last 3 years. The only problem is that it’s not clear exactly how us ‘people’ are supposed to go about ‘forcing an election’. Are we going to have a poll? We’ve been here before haven’t we? No mention of a ‘deal’ was offered on the voting slip over 3 years ago. The majority of the ‘people’ voted to exit the the EU. Our government should have walked us out of the EU without a deal there and then. Everything we’ve seen over the last 3 years is down to those who wish democracy to end or don’t recognise democracy. It’s not just happening here, try doing a Google search on ‘end of democracy’. Maybe the NWO is not a conspiracy after all. Orwell was right.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 5, 2019 6:25:31 GMT
Not happy about this, would anyone care to suggest how this is democracy?
There is also talk of the government voting no confidence in itself, which when you think about it, is not surprising by the way it’s acted over the last 3 years They could all kill themselves, like the Japanese would do, out of bringing shame on the whole country.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 5, 2019 6:28:37 GMT
Not happy about this, would anyone care to suggest how this is democracy?
No mention of a ‘deal’ was offered on the voting slip over 3 years ago. The majority of the ‘people’ voted to exit the the EU. Our government should have walked us out of the EU without a deal there and then. Another Thunderboater coming round to the Fox's point of view! Although, I am a fair person, and know that it takes times to shuffle things round, so would have said by the end of the year 2016.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 5, 2019 6:31:15 GMT
Not happy about this, would anyone care to suggest how this is democracy?
Maybe the NWO is not a conspiracy after all. Orwell was right. "a plot to mix white Europeans with other races via immigration was constructed by Austrian politician Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi and promoted in aristocratic European social circles." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalergi_planAlthough I am not one for conspiracy theories, when you see it happening right under your nose.... what do you make of it all?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 6:41:15 GMT
Maybe the NWO is not a conspiracy after all. Orwell was right. "a plot to mix white Europeans with other races via immigration was constructed by Austrian politician Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi and promoted in aristocratic European social circles." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalergi_planAlthough I am not one for conspiracy theories, when you see it happening right under your nose.... what do you make of it all? I don’t know if anyone has come around to your way of thinking Foxy, never alone me...and what’s race got to do with democracy? There is a world of difference between cultures getting along with one another and world domination by a handful of control freaks.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 5, 2019 6:44:03 GMT
I propose a change in the system. Instead of bothering with elections, expensive 'chambers' and the like simply install a brand new coalition government of Naughtyfox, Churchward from the other side (to show, there's no bias, you know) and Mr Stabby. Naughtyfox could spend his time trolling the internet to find out the issues of the day and propose his draconian solutions. Churchward, ever dispassionate, could be the moderating influence surely needed to dampen down the despotic intentions of the Fox. Mr Stabby could head up a newly formed 'department of humour and irony'. Humour is good, makes us happy. On top of this, using his newly acquired power, he could ensure tax reductions on super strength beers and ciders, creating further happiness among the populace.
Oh, and Jim Riley could continue being a clown.
What's not to like?
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