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Post by Mr Stabby on May 23, 2017 20:56:16 GMT
We could really do with the valuable contributions of Wanted and Sabcat on this thread.
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Post by tonyqj on May 23, 2017 20:57:17 GMT
The threat level has just been increased to 'Critical' which apparently means that a new attack may be imminent.
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Post by lollygagger on May 23, 2017 21:33:57 GMT
They are only saying, in so many words, that such behaviour seems insane? Certainly Delta9 clearly implied earlier that because of ongoing conflicts between western powers and Muslim states, that somebody whose parents fled the Gaddafi regime 25 years ago and sought sanctuary in the UK was entirely justified in carrying out this attack. I would personally disagree, if it was up to me I would never have let his parents into the country in the first place, and I'd have to say that history has proved me right. I think that rather than justifying he's trying to understand motivation. It's all very well queuing up to condemn but I for one feel it's insulting that if I don't join in that somehow shows approval. My condemnation and that of any sane man should go without saying. Now what? Some interest in what drives people does not mean approval, the alternative is to sit and say doh, not again, the evil scum are still evil scum, ad infinitum.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 23, 2017 21:43:34 GMT
Certainly Delta9 clearly implied earlier that because of ongoing conflicts between western powers and Muslim states, that somebody whose parents fled the Gaddafi regime 25 years ago and sought sanctuary in the UK was entirely justified in carrying out this attack. I would personally disagree, if it was up to me I would never have let his parents into the country in the first place, and I'd have to say that history has proved me right. I think that rather than justifying he's trying to understand motivation. If Delta9 can understand the motivation of a grown man spending several weeks planning to explode a bomb packed with ball-bearings, nuts and bolts at a concert destined to be attended almost entirely of pre-pubescent girls, then he is either a better man than me, or completely sick in the head. I'll leave it for others to decide.
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Post by Delta9 on May 23, 2017 21:50:29 GMT
They are only saying, in so many words, that such behaviour seems insane? Certainly Delta9 clearly implied earlier that because of ongoing conflicts between western powers and Muslim states, that somebody whose parents fled the Gaddafi regime 25 years ago and sought sanctuary in the UK was entirely justified in carrying out this attack. Please link me to where I clearly implied that. I know you are thick as pig shit, but I thought you could at least comprehend English..
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 23, 2017 21:53:18 GMT
Certainly Delta9 clearly implied earlier that because of ongoing conflicts between western powers and Muslim states, that somebody whose parents fled the Gaddafi regime 25 years ago and sought sanctuary in the UK was entirely justified in carrying out this attack. Please link me to where I clearly implied that. I know you are thick as pig shit, but I thought you could at least comprehend English.. Delta9 Avatar May 23, 2017 9:38:59 GMT 1 Delta9 said: When they don't have a large airforce,cruise missiles or sophisticated military tech, how else are they going to attack us?
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Post by Telemachus on May 23, 2017 21:55:06 GMT
I think that rather than justifying he's trying to understand motivation. If Delta9 can understand the motivation of a grown man spending several weeks planning to explode a bomb packed with ball-bearings, nuts and bolts at a concert destined to be attended almost entirely of pre-pubescent girls, then he is either a better man than me, or completely sick in the head. I'll leave it for others to decide. In that case he is a better man than you. You are just being hysterical. It is of the utmost importance to understand (or at least, make best efforts to understand) said motivation. Otherwise you are denying there is any possibility of preventing or reducing the possibility of a recurrence - and thus dooming lots more tiny children to a grisly end. For the avoidance of doubt and in case English isn't your first language, "understand" doesn't mean the same as "approve of", "empathise with" or "condone".
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Post by Delta9 on May 23, 2017 21:55:22 GMT
Please link me to where I clearly implied that. I know you are thick as pig shit, but I thought you could at least comprehend English.. Delta9 Avatar May 23, 2017 9:38:59 GMT 1 Delta9 said: When they don't have a large airforce,cruise missiles or sophisticated military tech, how else are they going to attack us? Have you been at the special brew again? How on earth do you take that comment to mean that the attack was justified?
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 23, 2017 22:04:04 GMT
If Delta9 can understand the motivation of a grown man spending several weeks planning to explode a bomb packed with ball-bearings, nuts and bolts at a concert destined to be attended almost entirely of pre-pubescent girls, then he is either a better man than me, or completely sick in the head. I'll leave it for others to decide. For the avoidance of doubt and in case English isn't your first language, "understand" doesn't mean the same as "approve of", "empathise with" or "condone". understand ʌndəˈstand/Submit verb 3. be sympathetically or knowledgeably aware of the character or nature of. "Picasso understood colour" synonyms: appreciate, recognize, realize, acknowledge, know, be aware of, be conscious of, be cognizant of, accept;
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 23, 2017 22:15:48 GMT
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Post by Telemachus on May 23, 2017 22:19:30 GMT
For the avoidance of doubt and in case English isn't your first language, "understand" doesn't mean the same as "approve of", "empathise with" or "condone". understand ʌndəˈstand/Submit verb 3. be sympathetically or knowledgeably aware of the character or nature of. "Picasso understood colour" synonyms: appreciate, recognize, realize, acknowledge, know, be aware of, be conscious of, be cognizant of, accept; Alright, perhaps I should have said "understand in this context doesn't mean...". But yes, I can go with "knowledgeably aware of the character or nature of."
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Post by Telemachus on May 23, 2017 22:20:14 GMT
Good idea. But for some reason you haven't acted on it?
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Post by bodger on May 24, 2017 7:32:26 GMT
It pisses me off that every time a violent crime is committed the authorities seem to assume that the criminal was either mentally ill or he was weak and was taken advantage of by others, and therefore not fully blameworthy.
I have personal knowledge of an arrogant twit who was guilty of abuse for years before the police caught up with him. Now everyone says he was/is mentally ill. Yes, probably because the stress of avoiding the attention of the authorities and now the stress of a long term prison stretch are too much for the little prick to bear. Everyone who commits murder is mentally unbalanced in some respect - that does not exonerate them. If we look into our own souls aren't we all aware of some imaginary demons? Self control stops us committing violent crimes - lack of self control is not mental illness. ................. or perhaps in this stupidly 'respectful', 'tolerant' and 'understanding' PC world it is considered so.
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Post by Telemachus on May 24, 2017 7:57:11 GMT
It pisses me off that every time a violent crime is committed the authorities seem to assume that the criminal was either mentally ill or he was weak and was taken advantage of by others, and therefore not fully blameworthy. I have personal knowledge of an arrogant twit who was guilty of abuse for years before the police caught up with him. Now everyone says he was/is mentally ill. Yes, probably because the stress of avoiding the attention of the authorities and now the stress of a long term prison stretch are too much for the little prick to bear. Everyone who commits murder is mentally unbalanced in some respect - that does not exonerate them. If we look into our own souls aren't we all aware of some imaginary demons? Self control stops us committing violent crimes - lack of self control is not mental illness. ................. or perhaps in this stupidly 'respectful', 'tolerant' and 'understanding' PC world it is considered so. It depends whether vengeance and retribution is your only goal, or whether you might have a bit of interest in trying to prevent it happening again with a different perpetrator. If the latter you need to try to understand why they did what they did, how they arrived at that state of mind, with a view to trying to stop it happening again. It is about trying to understand the mechanism by which they become radicalised, not about excusing it. Just saying they are evil scum etc serves no purpose other than a self indulgent and populist rant.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 8:01:14 GMT
It pisses me off that every time a violent crime is committed the authorities seem to assume that the criminal was either mentally ill or he was weak and was taken advantage of by others, and therefore not fully blameworthy. I have personal knowledge of an arrogant twit who was guilty of abuse for years before the police caught up with him. Now everyone says he was/is mentally ill. Yes, probably because the stress of avoiding the attention of the authorities and now the stress of a long term prison stretch are too much for the little prick to bear. Everyone who commits murder is mentally unbalanced in some respect - that does not exonerate them. If we look into our own souls aren't we all aware of some imaginary demons? Self control stops us committing violent crimes - lack of self control is not mental illness. ................. or perhaps in this stupidly 'respectful', 'tolerant' and 'understanding' PC world it is considered so. It depends whether vengeance and retribution is your only goal, or whether you might have a bit of interest in trying to prevent it happening again with a different perpetrator. If the latter you need to try to understand why they did what they did, how they arrived at that state of mind, with a view to trying to stop it happening again. It is about trying to understand the mechanism by which they become radicalised, not about excusing it. Just saying they are evil scum etc serves no purpose other than a self indulgent and populist rant. People have been looking to understand this sort of behaviour for years, yet the atrocities continue. Obviously its not working. Time to look at simpler solutions, preferably lead tipped.
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