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Post by Telemachus on May 24, 2017 8:03:39 GMT
It depends whether vengeance and retribution is your only goal, or whether you might have a bit of interest in trying to prevent it happening again with a different perpetrator. If the latter you need to try to understand why they did what they did, how they arrived at that state of mind, with a view to trying to stop it happening again. It is about trying to understand the mechanism by which they become radicalised, not about excusing it. Just saying they are evil scum etc serves no purpose other than a self indulgent and populist rant. People have been looking to understand this sort of behaviour for years, yet the atrocities continue. Obviously its not working. Time to look at simpler solutions, preferably lead tipped. So are you proposing to kill all Muslims? From hence forth you shall be known as Adolf.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 8:11:43 GMT
People have been looking to understand this sort of behaviour for years, yet the atrocities continue. Obviously its not working. Time to look at simpler solutions, preferably lead tipped. So are you proposing to kill all Muslims? From hence forth you shall be known as Adolf. Your afterlife should be that of a corkscrew. Lots of twists.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 8:26:05 GMT
I thought current affairs were banned on CW (giggles)
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Post by naughtyfox on May 24, 2017 8:27:11 GMT
The threat level has just been increased to 'Critical' which apparently means that a new attack may be imminent. Will we be having yellow alerts, orange alerts and red alerts like in the USA to keep us running round like headless chickens? ORANGE ALERT - more loonies!
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Post by Jim on May 24, 2017 8:59:21 GMT
It's awful. 3 family members had tickets, one for the night before, 2 for the night after. "Surviving unscathed" or a near miss leaves one with strange emotions. Years ago I was working in Trafford for a week, tried a different route every day, one day decided to go through the centre, down Deansgate, sat in traffic at the far end there was a special alert on the radio, an IRA bomb had exploded not long after we passed.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 24, 2017 9:14:13 GMT
People have been looking to understand this sort of behaviour for years, yet the atrocities continue. Obviously its not working. Time to look at simpler solutions, preferably lead tipped. So are you proposing to kill all Muslims? From hence forth you shall be known as Adolf. But surely the whole point of the attack was to create an atmosphere of loathing towards Muslims and Islam? If so, then nobody should really be surprised if it works.
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Post by tonyqj on May 24, 2017 9:18:43 GMT
It's awful. 3 family members had tickets, one for the night before, 2 for the night after. "Surviving unscathed" or a near miss leaves one with strange emotions. Years ago I was working in Trafford for a week, tried a different route every day, one day decided to go through the centre, down Deansgate, sat in traffic at the far end there was a special alert on the radio, an IRA bomb had exploded not long after we passed. A month after we stayed at the Hilton, Taba, Egypt a truck bomb drove into the foyer killing 50 people. I wasn't so much thinking "Shit, we could have been there" as I was thinking of the staff we'd become friendly with and the pretty girl who'd asked us if we would send her a copy of the photo we'd taken of her sat by the fountain in reception. All gone.
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Post by Telemachus on May 24, 2017 9:23:12 GMT
So are you proposing to kill all Muslims? From hence forth you shall be known as Adolf. But surely the whole point of the attack was to create an atmosphere of loathing towards Muslims and Islam? If so, then nobody should really be surprised if it works. I am pleased that you fully understand the point of it, but I certainly don't. But despite my lack of insight compared to yours, no I wouldn't say that was the whole point of the attack. Presumably when Harold Shipman and Peter Sutcliffe killed lots of people, that was intended to create an atmosphere of loathing towards white christians? And even if your view is correct, how shallow and easily manipulated would you be if it had the allegedly desired effect?
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Post by gigoguy on May 24, 2017 9:31:42 GMT
So are you proposing to kill all Muslims? From hence forth you shall be known as Adolf. But surely the whole point of the attack was to create an atmosphere of loathing towards Muslims and Islam? If so, then nobody should really be surprised if it works. I'm not sure that was the 'whole point' of the attack. I don't think we yet know if this was the work of a deranged individual or that of an organised terror attack. If it was the former then no one can ever know what his motives were. If it was the latter then the motive was to strike fear into the heart of the infidel. I think this whole IS, Taliban, Isis etc is a bit of a red herring. A bit like the Life of Brian scene, you know, 'Where is the Palestinian front for liberation?' 'That's him over there, scum!' They are fighting amongst themselves as much as they are fighting us. The attack was horrendous, cowardly and totally unjustifiable by anyone. I think that the only way we've got of bringing any sort of conclusion to this, is to put our trust in the 'sensible' Muslim community and leaders. Getting out the pitchforks and lighting the torches isn't going to do anyone any good.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 24, 2017 9:43:00 GMT
But surely the whole point of the attack was to create an atmosphere of loathing towards Muslims and Islam? If so, then nobody should really be surprised if it works. I am pleased that you fully understand the point of it, but I certainly don't. But despite my lack of insight compared to yours, no I wouldn't say that was the whole point of the attack. Presumably when Harold Shipman and Peter Sutcliffe killed lots of people, that was intended to create an atmosphere of loathing towards white christians? I'm amazed that someone who went to a "proper school" can display such a breathtaking amount of stupidity sometimes. Believe it or not, not all acts of murder have the same motivation behind them, and in both the cases you mention, in which the murders were committed for different reasons to each other, and to the Manchester bombing, the felon went to great lengths to avoid detection. An act of terrorism is designed to create terror- there's a basic English language lesson for you- and with terror comes inevitable hatred.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 10:00:47 GMT
But surely the whole point of the attack was to create an atmosphere of loathing towards Muslims and Islam? If so, then nobody should really be surprised if it works. (1) The attack was horrendous, cowardly and totally unjustifiable by anyone. I think that the only way we've got of bringing any sort of conclusion to this, is to put our trust in the 'sensible' Muslim community and leaders. (2) Getting out the pitchforks and lighting the torches isn't going to do anyone any good. I will say no thanks to no 1, as having seen that in place for some time, it's proven to have not been effective. I agree with your no 2, as I feel enough is enough, and a pitchfork or torch would have little effect. A 50 cal is preferable.
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Post by Telemachus on May 24, 2017 10:09:53 GMT
I am pleased that you fully understand the point of it, but I certainly don't. But despite my lack of insight compared to yours, no I wouldn't say that was the whole point of the attack. Presumably when Harold Shipman and Peter Sutcliffe killed lots of people, that was intended to create an atmosphere of loathing towards white christians? An act of terrorism is designed to create terror- there's a basic English language lesson for you- and with terror comes inevitable hatred. An act of terrorism is designed to create terror. With terror perhaps comes hatred of the perpetrator - but good luck with the purpose of hating someone who is already dead - I doubt they'll care too much! With it certainly does NOT come inevitable hatred of a groups of people totally disconnected with the offence, unless you are completely thick, like to bow to the wishes of the terrorist and/or have a predisposition for hatred of Muslims. No doubt if the chap had, instead of blowing up some school kids, sent you a nice bouquet of pretty flowers with a card saying "Pretty please, would you from now on hate all Muslims? xxx " you would have complied with the same enthusiasm!
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 10:10:00 GMT
I am pleased that you fully understand the point of it, but I certainly don't. But despite my lack of insight compared to yours, no I wouldn't say that was the whole point of the attack. Presumably when Harold Shipman and Peter Sutcliffe killed lots of people, that was intended to create an atmosphere of loathing towards white christians? ... An act of terrorism is designed to create terror- there's a basic English language lesson for you- and with terror comes inevitable hatred. I think you are right in that an act of terror leads to inevitable hatred, but Ive yet to see 'hatred' really solve much (speaking generally about terrorism/worldwide issues). Internment didn't seem to work with the IRA, it appeared to me to escalate the fundraising from people who were sympathetic to the aims of the IRA. I do believe that a mixture of 'security responses' is required but if those responses don't carefully consider whether they will escalate the problem then the escalation will inevitably happen. Whilst we can attempt to control our borders unless we go into complete lock down the bastards will always find a way through. In my opinion giving in to (the understandable) hatred is not the way forward.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 10:10:39 GMT
I think its time for hard lines to be drawn. Take down the mosques for starters (it's fact that these are directly linked to some of the issues). If you come here, abide by our culture (as i do when visiting foriegn countries). By all means, practice your religion or beliefs, but do it peacefully, or fuck off. As was said earlier, our troops and government, stop interfering in other countries troubles, history has proven recently that its a waste of time. Planning an atrocity such as this, knowing full well your going to blow up kids is a step to far. Our kids do not fly planes, drones or fire missiles.
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Post by Telemachus on May 24, 2017 10:20:37 GMT
I think its time for hard lines to be drawn. Take down the mosques for starters (it's fact that these are directly linked to some of the issues). If you come here, abide by our culture (as i do when visiting foriegn countries). By all means, practice your religion or beliefs, but do it peacefully, or fuck off. As was said earlier, our troops and government, stop interfering in other countries troubles, history has proven recently that its a waste of time. Planning an atrocity such as this, knowing full well your going to blow up kids is a step to far. Our kids do not fly planes, drones or fire missiles. Good ideas. Whilst we're at it, let's take down all pubs because they are a breeding ground for criminal gangs. And let's stop the internet from working since some paedophiles use it to get nasty pictures of kiddies. i realise you are being deliberately hysterical just to get a laugh but there is in fact a touch of sense. I would agree that we need to make more effort to ensure integration as opposed to ghettoisation, but there is fault on both side ie people like you and mr Stabby don't want those weird darkies living next to you smelling of curry etc, and that hostility tends to make non-natives want to live with their own kind for security and familiarity. Yes, stop faith schools (including Christian ones) Yes, ensure that there are no "hate preachers" in mosques. But burning down all the mosques is a bit 12th century! There might just be a backlash! Most of the problems seem to come via the internet these days, but how you balance freedom of communication and privacy, with the elimination of the internet as a means of spreading radicalisation, is a tricky one. One that, bearing in mind the level of debate on here, is beyond sensible analysis. Anyway, whilst our kids may not fly planes, drones or fire missiles, someone is going to be doing it in the future. Who will that be?
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