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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 9:08:21 GMT
Bassplayer, of course you did try to answer thank you.
Interesting to read the views put forward, and enjoy doing so.
But I remain unconvinced that the advocacy does any good.
Rog
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Post by JohnV on Jun 2, 2017 10:33:04 GMT
I think people are forgetting the history of ni, for instance Peter why are Catholics a minority? Is it because the occupying english imported lots of Scottish Protestants and gave them the land, which was forcefully taken from the original inhabitants. I know this was along time ago, but it's impossible to talk about the troubles in the 70's and 80's without looking at the history. How far do you want to go back Kris ......... remember Ulster was a Viking kingdom for quite a while. It's the same nearly everywhere ........ what we think of as the original inhabitants usually pushed someone else out. Irish myth is a good source about the land being taken by different peoples, well before the coming of the Irish.
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Post by kris on Jun 2, 2017 10:38:51 GMT
I think people are forgetting the history of ni, for instance Peter why are Catholics a minority? Is it because the occupying english imported lots of Scottish Protestants and gave them the land, which was forcefully taken from the original inhabitants. I know this was along time ago, but it's impossible to talk about the troubles in the 70's and 80's without looking at the history. How far do you want to go back Kris ......... remember Ulster was a Viking kingdom for quite a while. It's the same nearly everywhere ........ what we think of as the original inhabitants usually pushed someone else out. Irish myth is a good source about the land being taken by different peoples, well before the coming of the Irish. i understand Irish history quite well john and I know the influx of Scottish planters that I mentioned was the basis of the troubles being talked about in this thread. So to not take it into consideration is doing a dis service to the situation.
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Post by peterboat on Jun 2, 2017 10:46:52 GMT
I think people are forgetting the history of ni, for instance Peter why are Catholics a minority? Is it because the occupying english imported lots of Scottish Protestants and gave them the land, which was forcefully taken from the original inhabitants. I know this was along time ago, but it's impossible to talk about the troubles in the 70's and 80's without looking at the history. You are on the wrong thread Kris is should be the BBC
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Post by JohnV on Jun 2, 2017 10:50:48 GMT
That's the problem with using "recently updated" as your normal page of entry I often lose track of which thread I am on .......... my excuse is age
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Post by peterboat on Jun 2, 2017 10:51:30 GMT
The issue of Ulster was sorted in the 1920s when it was separated, I can assure you that protestants are badly treated in the south like the catholics were in the north, its a right mess but at the moment it is fairly peaceful but as always a minority want to ruin it for the majority
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 11:07:16 GMT
The issue of Ulster was sorted in the 1920s when it was separated, I can assure you that protestants are badly treated in the south like the catholics were in the north, its a right mess but at the moment it is fairly peaceful but as always a minority want to ruin it for the majority What are your thoughts about why my underlined bit has happened?
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Post by JohnV on Jun 2, 2017 11:19:42 GMT
I know you didn't ask me but I would think a lot had to do with the fact that the IRA were losing a lot of support, The general population were weary of the troubles and desperately wanted a settlement. The IRA obviously, after that length of time felt that they were unlikely to achieve their objectives by violence but possibly could by political methods. The situation with religious intolerance had eased somewhat (although both sides seem to delight in rubbing the others faces in historical anniversary re-enactments) Things have improved for minorities and the general population does not want violence so the support for all types of paramilitary organisations has reduced
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 11:41:26 GMT
I agree with you John. What I'm not sure about is why the support was declining and could there be any lessons learned about the current terrorist threat? Was it just that people were fed up with what was happening? Was it Just the IRA who decided they could achieve a better solution by political means?
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Post by kris on Jun 2, 2017 11:47:15 GMT
I think people are forgetting the history of ni, for instance Peter why are Catholics a minority? Is it because the occupying english imported lots of Scottish Protestants and gave them the land, which was forcefully taken from the original inhabitants. I know this was along time ago, but it's impossible to talk about the troubles in the 70's and 80's without looking at the history. You are on the wrong thread Kris is should be the BBC woops I don't know how that happened. Oh well.
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 2, 2017 13:14:47 GMT
Political threads for me reinforce the hopelessness of our political system where someone "wins" and therefore someone "looses". A majority are intransigent, like Peterboat who seems to have more interest in one bloke he hates than making a political decision that might be of benefit to all. Not picking on him particularly but he's a very clear example. No offence meant mr peterboat, your reasoning only has to satisfy you.
I hate them all (parties) and try to stick to bashing the first past the post system. The system wants us at each others throats and it's getting it's way.
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Post by zigspider on Jun 2, 2017 22:27:02 GMT
With the election fast approaching, I have been considering the purpose of the various political threads on here and on CWDF. I tend to read most of them, but try not to get involved. It appears to me that all participants approach the discussion with already formed 'fixed' views, that rarely change. So I wonder what the purpose of such threads can be? Is it evangelical, in the hope of persuading the undecided, or more a statement of one's position? As I've said, I usually read them, so I'm not complaining, just wondering. Rog This is a very valid point. I think a lot of people have 'set' views and it's very difficult to change them. I do like to think I'm open minded, even though I do lean a little leftward in general. That doesn't mean that I can't be liberal on occasions. I've come across this site. It basically asks you which policies you agree with, but doesn't tell you which party they are from. After you've filled in the survey it tells you which of the parties you agree with in which measure. So for instance I was quite high labour but also green and lib dem. Not enough to sway me from labour but I was surprised. voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/1/select-issuesI tried this 'survey' but there were so many similar policies between the 'parties' that it was impossible. I agreed with some of the policies of all the options !
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Post by JohnV on Jun 3, 2017 7:14:13 GMT
This is a very valid point. I think a lot of people have 'set' views and it's very difficult to change them. I do like to think I'm open minded, even though I do lean a little leftward in general. That doesn't mean that I can't be liberal on occasions. I've come across this site. It basically asks you which policies you agree with, but doesn't tell you which party they are from. After you've filled in the survey it tells you which of the parties you agree with in which measure. So for instance I was quite high labour but also green and lib dem. Not enough to sway me from labour but I was surprised. voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/1/select-issuesI tried this 'survey' but there were so many similar policies between the 'parties' that it was impossible. I agreed with some of the policies of all the options ! I found something similar when I looked at it ....... but I thought it must be just me being a cantankerous member of the awkward squad, disagreeing with most of them
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Post by peterboat on Jun 3, 2017 8:48:05 GMT
The issue of Ulster was sorted in the 1920s when it was separated, I can assure you that protestants are badly treated in the south like the catholics were in the north, its a right mess but at the moment it is fairly peaceful but as always a minority want to ruin it for the majority What are your thoughts about why my underlined bit has happened? The average Paddy in the street couldnt care less what religion someone was, all religion schools were becoming more popular, and the IRA members were being disappeared faster than they could be recruited ! The IRA were losing the fight rapidly because the population were providing the security force with good strong intel, as they were sick to death of the troubles! It got to the stage that you would never know if your car was going to be burnt out every time you went shopping! [we had this whilst there] It was a total mess and people wanted change
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Post by naughtyfox on Jun 3, 2017 9:33:47 GMT
The system wants us at each others throats and it's getting it's way. Throw a £50 note into a crowd and watch the stampede! I have a fake 100 Euros note and am going to leave it on the airport floor this Monday, and sit observing...
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