Aussie
Junior Member
Posts: 22
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Post by Aussie on Jul 3, 2017 7:33:28 GMT
As I've indicated in another thread I'm gearing up to buy a boat. I'm considering either second hand or new. Looking at second hand boats I've seen this one. It's been on the market for at least 4 months now with the price reduced from 68k to 63k. It looks OK but I'm sure more experienced eyes than mine can see a little deeper. Any ideas why this boat isn't selling? www.abnb.co.uk/boat_pages/3093web/3093abnb.php?BoatID=3093Cheers all
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Post by lollygagger on Jul 3, 2017 7:54:22 GMT
There doesn't seem to be much fitting out. Maybe for anyone looking there's always been a better one at the price?
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Post by peterboat on Jul 3, 2017 8:04:04 GMT
+1 didnt excite me to spend 63K
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 3, 2017 8:25:16 GMT
Yes the fit out is "light" with freestanding furniture in the saloon. Most of the cost of a new boat is in the fitout, so it is somewhat overpriced. And of course it's an owner fitout. Yes the chap is a BSS bod but that doesn't mean he's good at woodwork or a competent fitter-outer. Was it his first attempt at fitting out a boat? One of the problems with freestanding furniture is that it does take up a lot of space that could otherwise have storage lockers/drawers etc.
There is no solid fuel stove, something which I think is a must for out-of-season cruising. Eberspacher is really best considered as an occasional heating system, not for 24/7 over the winter.
I don't know what a "Petter 600/2" engine is. I'd want to know more about it and the marinisation of it. And what about parts availability. Personally I'd want a jap engine such a kubota (Beta etc), Mitsubishi or the like.
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Post by lollygagger on Jul 3, 2017 8:32:27 GMT
However, a new boat has a premium like a new car - if you find you don't like it after a while you won't get your money back when you sell.
But I don't agree with those who say your first boat is to find out what you really want. My first is exactly what I want, though I think I got lucky.
What is true is any doubts, don't buy, when the right one appears you'll know, maybe even as soon as you see the advert like me. 200 miles and 12 hours after first seeing it on the internet the deal was done.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 3, 2017 8:41:33 GMT
Having had a quick look, a Petter 600/2 seems to be an air cooled engine, and you can see the large grilled areas on the hull which are the cooling vents (and which of course make it much easier to sink the boat!). Air cooling means no "free" domestic water heating from the engine waste heat. Air cooling means an inevitably very noisy engine. The engine is only 24hp at 3000 revs (which is fairly high revving as 2-cyl boat engines go. This will be fine for canals but underpowered on rivers, and I think even on canals it will sound "busy". I wouldn't buy it just for those reasons.
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Post by lollygagger on Jul 3, 2017 8:59:15 GMT
Having had a quick look, a Petter 600/2 seems to be an air cooled engine, and you can see the large grilled areas on the hull which are the cooling vents (and which of course make it much easier to sink the boat!). Air cooling means no "free" domestic water heating from the engine waste heat. Air cooling means an inevitably very noisy engine. The engine is only 24hp at 3000 revs (which is fairly high revving as 2-cyl boat engines go. This will be fine for canals but underpowered on rivers, and I think even on canals it will sound "busy". I wouldn't buy it just for those reasons. So where the advert says water heated by engine, that's a "mistake"? If it's an air cooled, that'll be why it's not sold, must people would react to that with "why? Not for me I'll find a water cooled one"
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 3, 2017 9:19:30 GMT
Having had a quick look, a Petter 600/2 seems to be an air cooled engine, and you can see the large grilled areas on the hull which are the cooling vents (and which of course make it much easier to sink the boat!). Air cooling means no "free" domestic water heating from the engine waste heat. Air cooling means an inevitably very noisy engine. The engine is only 24hp at 3000 revs (which is fairly high revving as 2-cyl boat engines go. This will be fine for canals but underpowered on rivers, and I think even on canals it will sound "busy". I wouldn't buy it just for those reasons. So where the advert says water heated by engine, that's a "mistake"? If it's an air cooled, that'll be why it's not sold, must people would react to that with "why? Not for me I'll find a water cooled one" In the brochure, it specifies that the engine is air cooled. It says water heating is by central heating boiler and 1kw mains immersion heater. So yes, I'd imagine that the comment in the advert is a mistake or a careless presumption. it does seem a funny choice of engine, perhaps he had one in his shed and built the boat around it? Anyway, it doesn't bode well for the use of quality components elsewhere!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 9:47:42 GMT
Having had a quick look, a Petter 600/2 seems to be an air cooled engine, and you can see the large grilled areas on the hull which are the cooling vents (and which of course make it much easier to sink the boat!). Air cooling means no "free" domestic water heating from the engine waste heat. Air cooling means an inevitably very noisy engine. The engine is only 24hp at 3000 revs (which is fairly high revving as 2-cyl boat engines go. This will be fine for canals but underpowered on rivers, and I think even on canals it will sound "busy". I wouldn't buy it just for those reasons. So where the advert says water heated by engine, that's a "mistake"? If it's an air cooled, that'll be why it's not sold, must people would react to that with "why? Not for me I'll find a water cooled one" When we sold our boat the broker (not ABNB) made a couple of mistakes and ommissions in the draft brochure. It is incumbent upon the seller to carefully check the details and ensure that any errors are corrected before the boat is listed. I would expect ABNB to operate the same policy. The vendor either hasn't checked the info. or they have and they haven't spotted the error. I think people (rightly or wrongly) place too much trust in brokers to get the info. 100% correct. They usually have a clause pointing out any errors or omissions are the responsibility of the vendor or something similar, and/or it is the responsibilty of the buyer to verify any info. thus covering their backs quite nicely. As to the OP yes definitely over priced, we sold a boat with a superb hand crafted fit out and a very high equipment spec. for a lot less than that. Yes it needed a new paint job but even with that costed on top what our buyer paid it would have come in at a lot less than that boat.
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Post by lollygagger on Jul 3, 2017 10:19:28 GMT
The spec for mine made no mention of the 3.5kva diesel generator, 2kw inverter, 80a charger or automatic washing machine nor pictures of them. It said engine powered generator, I was expecting perhaps a travelpower thing and got some nice surprises. The photos were awful too. I had a look on the way to see another boat, I didn't make it to the other one.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 14:03:15 GMT
Way overpriced. Mine must be worth half a million.
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Post by Saltysplash on Jul 3, 2017 14:24:20 GMT
I think its a nice looking boat and quite like the fit out and the engine doesnt bother me being air cooled as my first boat had a splendid Lister SR3 and even with vent holes in the hull it didnt sink and although it was over 20 yr old it still managed the trip from Limehouse to Teddington on the Thames, then Teddington to Oxford against the flow, also the River Seven from Worcester to Stourport.
Would I pay 60 odd k for this one? no, I dont like semi trads and there are plenty other boats out there much cheaper and with more extras, it has eberbaanger heating which I hate as a sole heating source, and I dont like the colour. I also want a Cratch and Cover and at 63k it wouldnt give me much left for things I want to change or add.
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Aussie
Junior Member
Posts: 22
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Post by Aussie on Jul 3, 2017 17:35:23 GMT
Thanks everyone. This is our learning curve. Despite the fact that we'very done some 14 or so weeks on a (hire) boat we're very much beginners for buying a boat so answers like this from much more experienced people are great learning for us.
I had wondered about the engine. I spent an hour or 2 researching the engine online last night and couldn't find anything much about it. Good point about the water heating.
I also thought the alternator was a little disappointing and the solar was underpowered. The battery bank was a little underwhelming too.
But that's all to my massively inexperienced eye and it’s wonderful to be able to run these things past more experienced eyes. I could be totally wrong.
We don't mind freestanding furniture and a wood heater isn't a deal breaker as we don't plan to use it in winter but it would be nice for those odd days. In fact we don't really like fitted dining as it takes up a lot of space.
So it's keep looking, we aren't really in need of one right now but if a great boat came up we'd look at it seriously.
Thanks all the feedback is much appreciated
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 3, 2017 21:56:31 GMT
I also thought the alternator was a little disappointing and the solar was underpowered. The battery bank was a little underwhelming too. Yes the alternator is on the small, side especially considering the 2.5kw inverter. However that is another limitation of the small engine. If you want a large alternator that can give a good charge even at low engine rpm, you need plenty of torque. A 175A alternator needs 3 or 4 horsepower and if you will struggle to get that from a small 2-cylinder engine near idle. You also need to drive the alternator with a flat polyvee belt - an ordinary "fan belt" can't cope with more than 90-100A of load. So the engine needs to have the right pulleys and brackets. But regarding the solar and batteries, I don't think that should be a factor since more solar panels and batteries should be pretty easy to retrofit - unlike a different engine.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 4, 2017 6:56:43 GMT
I really don't undertand why boaters want so much electricity! We got a water pump, shower pump, lights, headlamp and horn. The radios, torches and Witch's vibrator work with LR6 batteries - what else d'ya need??!! You missed out fridge, TV, coffee machine, toaster, electric blanket in winter and lots more. Boating doesn't have to be a spartan survival excercise!
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