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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 13:30:17 GMT
Any engine used extensively at sea could be pretty shagged out because of the salt water situation.
Gardner are good but nothing is immune.
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Post by kris on Oct 21, 2017 13:31:38 GMT
Going back to your earlier comment about Kelvin J2 units (also trawler engines) I thought they were worth a lot more than £1500 at the height of the "we want as much brass to polish and a kerlunk kerlunk noise" narrow boat building phase. I'm a bit surprised by your claim they were never worth more than a couple of grand. Are you mistaking the kelvin j's with the k's. The k's are definately worth the kind of money you are talking about, because they are very rare. The j's are much smaller so more suitable for narrowboats but not as rare. By the way you would have got a kelvin j under your floor.
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Post by kris on Oct 21, 2017 13:36:03 GMT
Sorry my mistake..3LW, he bought it in 2004 from a Gardner specialist in Weymouth, (can't remember their name) for £10k supposedly recovered from a fishing boat and rebuilt/restored It then spewed its guts with serious top end problems, valves redone etc in about 2007 then six months ago had a serious loss of pressure, being either the pump or the shells. He had the pump checked by Charles ( the renown Gardner expert ) and is now waiting his new bearing shells to arrive and rebuilt. Hopefully this time it'll be sorted! Sounds as if the original rebuilder was a bit dubious to me. As I say they have a reputation for still running even in appalling condition. sounds like he paid a lot for it. I saw a brand new 2lw still in the crate, it had been sent to South Africa never used. Returned to the uk, that only went for £10,000.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 13:36:18 GMT
I'm wondering if you are thinking of the Kelvin P4 which is another occasionally used nb engine.
I'm familiar with the J and K ranges and I'd say a J2 would be a very attractive unit for an expensive narrow boat. They aren't narrow boat engines but they look good and do the job so I reckon they would be expensive.
I'm not sure I'd have fitted a J3 or J4 under the floor - its surprising how little room there is on my boat as it was built to maximise internal accommodation so the engine hole is unusually cramped and the wheelhouse has full headroom while passing under canal bridges without being folded down.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 13:39:40 GMT
Sorry my mistake..3LW, he bought it in 2004 from a Gardner specialist in Weymouth, (can't remember their name) for £10k supposedly recovered from a fishing boat and rebuilt/restored It then spewed its guts with serious top end problems, valves redone etc in about 2007 then six months ago had a serious loss of pressure, being either the pump or the shells. He had the pump checked by Charles ( the renown Gardner expert ) and is now waiting his new bearing shells to arrive and rebuilt. Hopefully this time it'll be sorted! Sounds as if the original rebuilder was a bit dubious to me. As I say they have a reputation for still running even in appalling condition. sounds like he paid a lot for it. I saw a brand new 2lw still in the crate, it had been sent to South Africa never used. Returned to the uk, that only went for £10,000. When gardner reintroduced the 2LW in the 90s I read somewhere that some of the units were sent to Africa to be used for water pumps. And some were put in narrow boats like the one which went to the Black Sea with a butty (new boats built by Evans and Son iirc). I wonder if the one you mention was an old Gardner or one of the newer ones. I don't think they are the same thing - not sure but I suspect the new ones are of a lower quality.
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Post by kris on Oct 21, 2017 13:42:54 GMT
I'm wondering if you are thinking of the Kelvin P4 which is another occasionally used nb engine. I'm familiar with the J and K ranges and I'd say a J2 would be a very attractive unit for an expensive narrow boat. They aren't narrow boat engines but they look good and do the job so I reckon they would be expensive. I'm not sure I'd have fitted a J3 or J4 under the floor - its surprising how little room there is on my boat as it was built to maximise internal accommodation so the engine hole is unusually cramped and the wheelhouse has full headroom while passing under canal bridges without being folded down. I was only joking about getting a j under your floor, sorry I should start using 😄 to denote humour. There have been a few kelvin j's on eBay advertised for around £6000 non sell at that. I think it's just that the lister jp' s and the gardners are more coveted oh and the Rn's of course. Yes im aware of of the p4 kelvin.
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Post by kris on Oct 21, 2017 13:47:08 GMT
Sounds as if the original rebuilder was a bit dubious to me. As I say they have a reputation for still running even in appalling condition. sounds like he paid a lot for it. I saw a brand new 2lw still in the crate, it had been sent to South Africa never used. Returned to the uk, that only went for £10,000. When gardner reintroduced the 2LW in the 90s I read somewhere that some of the units were sent to Africa to be used for water pumps. And some were put in narrow boats like the one which went to the Black Sea with a butty (new boats built by Evans and Son iirc). I wonder if the one you mention was an old Gardner or one of the newer ones. I don't think they are the same thing - not sure but I suspect the new ones are of a lower quality. You might be right about the quality difference between the 'new' ones and the older ones I wouldnt know. But there is a big quality difference between a new engine and a " rebuilt" one, especially when the main component of the rebuild was the paint.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 13:49:10 GMT
I had a modern (Essex) RN DM2 in a NB for a few thousand hours of cruising and it was OK but a bit under powered. I've seen that there are some DM4's about. That would make a nice barge engine and as they have clerestory combustion chambers with horizontal valve gear they are a little bit less high than some comparable units. Or a Gleniffer DB4 which used the RN patent combustion chamber design. That'd be nice.
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Post by kris on Oct 21, 2017 13:54:56 GMT
I had a modern (Essex) RN DM2 in a NB for a few thousand hours of cruising and it was OK but a bit under powered. I've seen that there are some DM4's about. That would make a nice barge engine and as they have clerestory combustion chambers with horizontal valve gear they are a little bit less high than some comparable units. Or a Gleniffer DB4 which used the RN patent combustion chamber design. That'd be nice. I almost bought a marine Dm4, before I bought the engine I have now. Unfortunately it was too long for my engine room. It was in immaculate condition had hardly done any work. It went for£1200 a bargain if ever there was one. A friend of mine has a marine Dm3 in his L@L shortboat.
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Post by Jim on Oct 21, 2017 14:09:34 GMT
All this talk of diesels, when all the talk about diesels lately elsewhere is that the particulate emissions are killing people, 20k pa! It's not just London that is suffering. What's the alternative? I have a fairly recent Honda 20 outboard on the back of mine, fairly easy to strap a big outboard on, better manoeuvrability, one problem is the electrickery output, another is they won't let you through standedge tunnel. What does the future hold? Can inefficient old diesels be justified?
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Post by kris on Oct 21, 2017 14:11:33 GMT
All this talk of diesels, when all the talk about diesels lately elsewhere is that the particulate emissions are killing people, 20k pa! It's not just London that is suffering. What's the alternative? I have a fairly recent Honda 20 outboard on the back of mine, fairly easy to strap a big outboard on, better manoeuvrability, one problem is the electrickery output, another is they won't let you through standedge tunnel. What does the future hold? Can inefficient old diesels be justified? yes
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Post by Jim on Oct 21, 2017 14:23:39 GMT
All this talk of diesels, when all the talk about diesels lately elsewhere is that the particulate emissions are killing people, 20k pa! It's not just London that is suffering. What's the alternative? I have a fairly recent Honda 20 outboard on the back of mine, fairly easy to strap a big outboard on, better manoeuvrability, one problem is the electrickery output, another is they won't let you through standedge tunnel. What does the future hold? Can inefficient old diesels be justified? yes Go on then..... I love the sound and feel of them myself, Spey, with its Bolinder, came past us this summer. Just wonder if the writing is on the wall. I'm not keen on sharing locks with a smoky one these days, heart attack and stroke inducing! Can particulate filters be retro fitted, does dumping it underwater filter it?
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Post by kris on Oct 21, 2017 14:29:22 GMT
Go on then..... I love the sound and feel of them myself, Spey, with its Bolinder, came past us this summer. Just wonder if the writing is on the wall. I'm not keen on sharing locks with a smoky one these days, heart attack and stroke inducing! Can particulate filters be retro fitted, does dumping it underwater filter it? Are you seriously suggesting historic boats should have outboards strapped to them? What fuel was used to carry your petrol to the petrol station.or how much diesel was burnt to produce your petrol. Storing petrol on a boat is much more dangerous than diesel. Running diesels on veg oil is a cleaner option bit at the end of the day burning anything isn't clean. As for electric how is the electric produced? So it might make you feel superior because you can't see smoke coming out of your exhaust but what's the whole story.
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Post by kris on Oct 21, 2017 14:39:28 GMT
Go on then..... I love the sound and feel of them myself, Spey, with its Bolinder, came past us this summer. Just wonder if the writing is on the wall. I'm not keen on sharing locks with a smoky one these days, heart attack and stroke inducing! Can particulate filters be retro fitted, does dumping it underwater filter it? oh yes as I understand it you are a fire breather, juggle fire ( correct me if I'm wrong) what fuel do you use? Parfin? If so I'd suggest that being in close proximity to the fumes has done more damage to your health than the fumes you've breathed in from historic boat engines. Also do you or have you ever smoked?
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Post by kris on Oct 21, 2017 15:00:48 GMT
Jim please don't take anything I've said as a personal attack, it's not meant as such. I'm just trying to point out that it's not as simple as saying diesel bad, petrol good. I ve not even gone into the energy taken to produce your engine. The engine I have is 50 years old how many Honda outboards will you go through in 50 years. Not saying diesels are good just that it's not as black and white as some people would have you believe. Take the current political trend towards promoting electric cars, is this for the benefit of the public or car manufactures ( they get to sell lots of new cars) as I've mentioned how is the electricity produced? And how clean are the batteries, mining all of that rare earth metal and then the recycling of. I think you have to question everything.
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