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Post by JohnV on Dec 27, 2017 12:07:45 GMT
Used to cart a guitar round the world with me when I was at sea ....... never progressed very far and it was a pain especially if you were flying somewhere. After a couple of years gave it up and took up the penny whistle instead ........ Haven't played that for quite a few years now
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Post by Telemachus on Dec 27, 2017 12:21:52 GMT
How do you graded pianists get on without music? I had a friend who was up the grades, we wanted him to play in a band with us but without music in front of him the best he could manage was chopsticks! I don't / can't read music myself and because of that^ I'm glad I never learnt. I realise there is much to learn from understanding scales and chord progressions, but if doing so leaves you less able to play from your imagination and shackled as my friend was I'm happy to remain uneducated. He could play technically beautiful music but we played rock and roll from the heart and got the girls. I agree. I can play music from sheets of paper, but lost without it. I am definitely not naturally musical. But what being able to read music allows, is for non-musical people to sound reasonable! But I’d also question whether any but the most gifted can “make up” music that is harmonically complex “on the fly”. Yes bashing out a 3 chord rock and roll thing with some embellishments is fine. But something with the harmonic complexities one occasionally finds in modern music, and which I really like, must surely be beyond the musicality of all but the best “natural players”?
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Post by JohnV on Dec 27, 2017 12:30:32 GMT
the sign of a decent musician is one who can busk and read dots, as well as just play "tunes they know"
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 27, 2017 12:56:58 GMT
How do you graded pianists get on without music? I had a friend who was up the grades, we wanted him to play in a band with us but without music in front of him the best he could manage was chopsticks! I don't / can't read music myself and because of that^ I'm glad I never learnt. I realise there is much to learn from understanding scales and chord progressions, but if doing so leaves you less able to play from your imagination and shackled as my friend was I'm happy to remain uneducated. He could play technically beautiful music but we played rock and roll from the heart and got the girls. I agree. I can play music from sheets of paper, but lost without it. I am definitely not naturally musical. But what being able to read music allows, is for non-musical people to sound reasonable! But I’d also question whether any but the most gifted can “make up” music that is harmonically complex “on the fly”. Yes bashing out a 3 chord rock and roll thing with some embellishments is fine. But something with the harmonic complexities one occasionally finds in modern music, and which I really like, must surely be beyond the musicality of all but the best “natural players”? Chance and experimentation I think, which I like. I don't play piano but I do have a 2 octave midi input device which allows me an endless selection of sounds and textures. Sometimes I play random chords into it with no idea what I'm doing. Sometimes nice things come out but more often dischord. But, with music software recording events rather than sound (also records sound if you want) you can then shuffle it into a key with one click. If it's no good, undo and try another. Works well if you can manage to put expression into what you're playing while ignoring or not listening to the racket coming out, secure in the knowlege it can be tamed afterwards. I love modern music production. Another thing I've done is wipe a line of notes across the grid,hit the random button, which allows specifying top and bottom notes, then shift it into keys as above. Or copy the drum track to the piano and see what comes out. So you can be really creative and "write" surprising music without playing a note. I like that because it saves learning to play instruments. You can also do endless things with recorded real instruments of course, picking out the best bits, changing the order, make a bass from a guitar... But again because of processing lag, if you intended a distorted echoing guitar, you have to play in that style, completely clean, then add all the texture afterwards so you have to know how to do that from experience. You might enjoy this Nick, it's highly technical and cheap to do and there are enough free virtual instruments and effects out there to keep one constantly amused.
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Post by Telemachus on Dec 27, 2017 13:00:45 GMT
I agree. I can play music from sheets of paper, but lost without it. I am definitely not naturally musical. But what being able to read music allows, is for non-musical people to sound reasonable! But I’d also question whether any but the most gifted can “make up” music that is harmonically complex “on the fly”. Yes bashing out a 3 chord rock and roll thing with some embellishments is fine. But something with the harmonic complexities one occasionally finds in modern music, and which I really like, must surely be beyond the musicality of all but the best “natural players”? Chance and experimentation I think, which I like. I don't play piano but I do have a 2 octave midi input device which allows me an endless selection of sounds and textures. Sometimes I play random chords into it with no idea what I'm doing. Sometimes nice things come out but more often dischord. But, with music software recording events rather than sound (also records sound if you want) you can then shuffle it into a key with one click. If it's no good, undo and try another. Works well if you can manage to put expression into what you're playing while ignoring or not listening to the racket coming out, secure in the knowlege it can be tamed afterwards. I love modern music production. Another thing I've done is wipe a line of notes across the grid,hit the random button, which allows specifying top and bottom notes, then shift it into keys as above. Or copy the drum track to the piano and see what comes out. So you can be really creative and "write" surprising music without playing a note. I like that because it saves learning to play instruments. You can also do endless things with recorded real instruments of course, picking out the best bits, changing the order, make a bass from a guitar... But again because of processing lag, if you intended a distorted echoing guitar, you have to play in that style, completely clean, then add all the texture afterwards so you have to know how to do that from experience. You might enjoy this Nick, it's highly technical and cheap to do and there are enough free virtual instruments and effects out there to keep one constantly amused. I did this sort of thing perhaps 20 years ago. I had an Atari running Cubase, a keyboard/synth, drum machine, various effects boxes, 8 track recorder/mixer etc. Kept me happy for many years but eventually I decided that “proper music” via the piano was more pleasant and rewarding.
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 27, 2017 13:11:21 GMT
Chance and experimentation I think, which I like. I don't play piano but I do have a 2 octave midi input device which allows me an endless selection of sounds and textures. Sometimes I play random chords into it with no idea what I'm doing. Sometimes nice things come out but more often dischord. But, with music software recording events rather than sound (also records sound if you want) you can then shuffle it into a key with one click. If it's no good, undo and try another. Works well if you can manage to put expression into what you're playing while ignoring or not listening to the racket coming out, secure in the knowlege it can be tamed afterwards. I love modern music production. Another thing I've done is wipe a line of notes across the grid,hit the random button, which allows specifying top and bottom notes, then shift it into keys as above. Or copy the drum track to the piano and see what comes out. So you can be really creative and "write" surprising music without playing a note. I like that because it saves learning to play instruments. You can also do endless things with recorded real instruments of course, picking out the best bits, changing the order, make a bass from a guitar... But again because of processing lag, if you intended a distorted echoing guitar, you have to play in that style, completely clean, then add all the texture afterwards so you have to know how to do that from experience. You might enjoy this Nick, it's highly technical and cheap to do and there are enough free virtual instruments and effects out there to keep one constantly amused. I did this sort of thing perhaps 20 years ago. I had an Atari running Cubase, a keyboard/synth, drum machine, various effects boxes, 8 track recorder/mixer etc. Kept me happy for many years but eventually I decided that “proper music” via the piano was more pleasant and rewarding. I'm teaching granny to suck eggs then! When I last did it I used pirated cubaseVST and hundreds of top notch pirated instruments and effects. It's time consuming so I also gave it up until I retired recently, now it fills rainy days if I'm in the mood.
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Post by Telemachus on Dec 27, 2017 13:14:57 GMT
In my day Cubase was just a midi sequencer, albeit a pretty good one. Now I think it does inbuilt sampling? But anyway, as we’ve said in order to make the most out of that sort of kit you need to be naturally musical. I was good with the tech but not naturally musical!
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 27, 2017 13:19:40 GMT
The trouble with any instrument is that the better you get, the longer it takes to warm up, the more playing time you need to put in to keep improving and the more aware you become of how good you aren't.
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 27, 2017 13:21:50 GMT
In my day Cubase was just a midi sequencer, albeit a pretty good one. Now I think it does inbuilt sampling? But anyway, as we’ve said in order to make the most out of that sort of kit you need to be naturally musical. I was good with the tech but not naturally musical! If you can play and record one proper instrument well enough to put expression into it, that does liven the whole thing up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 14:20:14 GMT
I agree. I can play music from sheets of paper, but lost without it. I am definitely not naturally musical. But what being able to read music allows, is for non-musical people to sound reasonable! But I’d also question whether any but the most gifted can “make up” music that is harmonically complex “on the fly”. Yes bashing out a 3 chord rock and roll thing with some embellishments is fine. But something with the harmonic complexities one occasionally finds in modern music, and which I really like, must surely be beyond the musicality of all but the best “natural players”? Chance and experimentation I think, which I like. I don't play piano but I do have a 2 octave midi input device which allows me an endless selection of sounds and textures. Sometimes I play random chords into it with no idea what I'm doing. Sometimes nice things come out but more often dischord. But, with music software recording events rather than sound (also records sound if you want) you can then shuffle it into a key with one click. If it's no good, undo and try another. Works well if you can manage to put expression into what you're playing while ignoring or not listening to the racket coming out, secure in the knowlege it can be tamed afterwards. I love modern music production. Another thing I've done is wipe a line of notes across the grid,hit the random button, which allows specifying top and bottom notes, then shift it into keys as above. Or copy the drum track to the piano and see what comes out. So you can be really creative and "write" surprising music without playing a note. I like that because it saves learning to play instruments. You can also do endless things with recorded real instruments of course, picking out the best bits, changing the order, make a bass from a guitar... But again because of processing lag, if you intended a distorted echoing guitar, you have to play in that style, completely clean, then add all the texture afterwards so you have to know how to do that from experience. You might enjoy this Nick, it's highly technical and cheap to do and there are enough free virtual instruments and effects out there to keep one constantly amused. I used to use fruity loops, not done so for a while, as I now have cd's and software for music that allows me to add or subtract instruments. That and a pod line 6 makes enough racket for me these days.
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 27, 2017 14:48:27 GMT
Chance and experimentation I think, which I like. I don't play piano but I do have a 2 octave midi input device which allows me an endless selection of sounds and textures. Sometimes I play random chords into it with no idea what I'm doing. Sometimes nice things come out but more often dischord. But, with music software recording events rather than sound (also records sound if you want) you can then shuffle it into a key with one click. If it's no good, undo and try another. Works well if you can manage to put expression into what you're playing while ignoring or not listening to the racket coming out, secure in the knowlege it can be tamed afterwards. I love modern music production. Another thing I've done is wipe a line of notes across the grid,hit the random button, which allows specifying top and bottom notes, then shift it into keys as above. Or copy the drum track to the piano and see what comes out. So you can be really creative and "write" surprising music without playing a note. I like that because it saves learning to play instruments. You can also do endless things with recorded real instruments of course, picking out the best bits, changing the order, make a bass from a guitar... But again because of processing lag, if you intended a distorted echoing guitar, you have to play in that style, completely clean, then add all the texture afterwards so you have to know how to do that from experience. You might enjoy this Nick, it's highly technical and cheap to do and there are enough free virtual instruments and effects out there to keep one constantly amused. I used to use fruity loops, not done so for a while, as I now have cd's and software for music that allows me to add or subtract instruments. That and a pod line 6 makes enough racket for me these days. I never got to grips with Fruity loops, I think I'm too old fashioned to give up on what I already know.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Dec 27, 2017 15:29:58 GMT
I decided to make the 'uke' a project a couple of years ago. If you can knock a tune out of a guitar it's very easy to play, just a new set of chord shapes. Flush with success I decided to try the banjo last year. What a horrible noise I can make. I listen to skilled banjo players and wonder how I can make such a row with the same instrument. Needless to say, the banjo will not be going back to the boat. Rog I love Mary James on banjo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 16:02:17 GMT
I can do that.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Dec 27, 2017 16:07:01 GMT
So could I!
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Post by quaysider on Dec 27, 2017 16:16:04 GMT
are we still talking about "playing" gentlemen?
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