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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 14:46:51 GMT
Seems quite a quaint idea for wide beam boat owners to do a blockade at Fradley junction. I think they should add ricin poisoning of suspected CRT collaborators and possibly a few high profile motorcycle assassinations. That would get the headlines. Is Fradley north or south of the chicane? Can southern snowflake fatboaters get to it? As I remember it Fradley is narrow on all approaches which is why I think its a quaint idea. Eta nice to see someone using the correct terminology (in the middle of the second sentence)
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Post by JohnV on Mar 9, 2018 14:52:50 GMT
I attended one of the CRT consultation sessions and actually most people present felt that a fat boat should pay a bit more than a same length narrowboat. So whilst I have sympathy for fat boats, I doubt they will get much support from most narrowboaters. I have a problem with those consultations when I hear of widebeam owners who attempted to get tickets, were told it was full but found out later that the session was not full. There does seem to be some indication of CRT preference in who got tickets and who didn't. I understand the way it can be looked at by narrowboat owners, that widebeams are bigger and should pay more (a bit like the old "Thames tonnage" method of charging. However I would put forward the counter argument that some of the oldest (and high maintenance ?) canals that absorb a lot of the total maintenance costs are, in effect, being subsidised by widebeam owners who are unable to access those waterways. There are plenty of arguments both ways ...... there is also the problem of traditional ex working widebeam vessels. The ramping up of the fees for some of these historic vessels could possibly cause their scrapping. The maintenance costs of a 50, 60 or 70 year old boat are extremely high if they are not allowed to deteriorate and there are only a limited number of enthusiasts prepared to put in the time, effort and finances required. At the start of these "consultations" it was said that it would be cost "neutral" but it is not, it is a major price hike
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Post by kris on Mar 9, 2018 15:17:12 GMT
I There are plenty of arguments both ways ...... there is also the problem of traditional ex working widebeam vessels. The ramping up of the fees for some of these historic vessels could possibly cause their scrapping. The maintenance costs of a 50, 60 or 70 year old boat are extremely high if they are not allowed to deteriorate and there are only a limited number of enthusiasts prepared to put in the time, effort and finances required. At the start of these "consultations" it was said that it would be cost "neutral" but it is not, it is a major price hike Exactly John, I know plenty of people that have ex-commercial wideboats. They are not rich people just enthusiasts, the price increase will put people off taking on these boats in the future. So will enevitably lead to less and less of these boats being kept afloat. The whole way that this process was undertaken leaves a bad taste in the mouth. IRoll on the enevitable failure of Crt and the break up of the network, them at least we might just pay for the waterways we use. Instead of paying a 20% premium to be able to use a third of the network.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 15:42:17 GMT
So you would be in favour of dismantling the network and privatisation of individual canals and/or regions then ?
I assume this is what happens in future and it -might- be to the benefit of people with wide boats except that someone might notice the only reason people have wide boats is for living on and if someone is living on a boat then that presents a valid reason to charge them accommodation fees. accomodation always costs money (almost always). If it was legal to live in buses by roads in high house price areas people would do it. But it isn't so they don't. The cut is the last hiding place. Not for much longer.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Mar 9, 2018 15:44:01 GMT
I haven't done the arithmetic for what I'm going to suggest due to shortage of time just at the moment, and it isn't something that on it's own would have any great effect, but instinct is saying to me that C&RT haven't thought through the effects that the discount reduction could have on their cash flow.
There could possibly be a detrimental effect on their cash flow, if a sufficient number of those who formerly paid up in full and up front were to change to paying for their PBL's and PBC's via the 10 monthly, interest free DD installments, . . especially if this were to come about at around the same time as they were faced with having to refund all the wrongfully collected VAT on every PBC they've ever issued.
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Post by kris on Mar 9, 2018 15:54:01 GMT
So you would be in favour of dismantling the network and privatisation of individual canals and/or regions then ? ] [ No I'm not in favour of the network being broken up, it was a facetious comment. I'm also not in Favour of paying a surcharge for being able to use less of the network, but I don't have much choice at the moment. Would you like to point out which people are "hiding" I'm not hiding from anything or anyone. I'm doing what I am legally entitled to do i.e. Living on a boat on the inland waterways. You keep putting forward this view that people are hiding from something or getting away with something. I would suggest to you it is this kind of point of view that is the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 16:05:17 GMT
Roll on the enevitable failure of Crt and the break up of the network, them at least we might just pay for the waterways we use. Instead of paying a 20% premium to be able to use a third of the network. You said this kris ^^ I took it literally. As for furthering the reasons for my opinion on this its pointless for me to do that Never mind.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 16:08:44 GMT
I haven't done the arithmetic for what I'm going to suggest due to shortage of time just at the moment, and it isn't something that on it's own would have any great effect, but instinct is saying to me that C&RT haven't thought through the effects that the discount reduction could have on their cash flow. There could possibly be a detrimental effect on their cash flow, if a sufficient number of those who formerly paid up in full and up front were to change to paying for their PBL's and PBC's via the 10 monthly, interest free DD installments, . . especially if this were to come about at around the same time as they were faced with having to refund all the wrongfully collected VAT on every PBC they've ever issued. Surely the whole point of CRT is to fail financially so this is a great opportunity to help out a bit in that respect.
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Post by kris on Mar 9, 2018 16:16:16 GMT
Roll on the enevitable failure of Crt and the break up of the network, them at least we might just pay for the waterways we use. Instead of paying a 20% premium to be able to use a third of the network. You said this kris ^^ I took it literally. As for furthering the reasons for my opinion on this its pointless for me to do that Never mind. Yes I understand why you took it literally. But can you see why people aren't "hiding" they are doing what they are legally entitled to?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 16:20:13 GMT
You said this kris ^^ I took it literally. As for furthering the reasons for my opinion on this its pointless for me to do that Never mind. Yes I understand why you took it literally. But can you see why people aren't "hiding" they are doing what they are legally entitled to? I'm aware of that kris. I have a long term interest in being able to live on the cut "off grid" in the future. My prediction is that this will become impossible fairly soon due too abuse. Simple. Opinion. Time will tell.
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Post by kris on Mar 9, 2018 16:25:07 GMT
Yes I understand why you took it literally. But can you see why people aren't "hiding" they are doing what they are legally entitled to? I'm aware of that kris. I have a long term interest in being able to live on the cut "off grid" in the future. My prediction is that this will become impossible fairly soon due too abuse. Simple. Opinion. Time will tell. This I agree with in part, but until it becomes illegal there is no "hiding or getting away with anything" the bit I don't agree with is the term abuse. It's just the shear numbers in places like London. Cart have let the situation get out of hand they could have quite easily done something about it before now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 21:52:20 GMT
It is irritating that they seem incapable of dealing with something they recognize as a problem (London for example) but invent problems that don't exist to excuse price hikes.
The stated aim was to 'simplify the licensing system that has not been changed for twenty years'.
Hands up anyone who thinks the new proposals are simpler?
Rog
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Post by thebfg on Mar 9, 2018 21:56:50 GMT
Yea that was going to be my point and crt need to answer it.
How has this simplified licensing?
Especially when they have kept all those discounts.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Mar 10, 2018 10:16:04 GMT
An effective protest might be something along the lines of... Four fat boats meet at a predetermined spot. I'd suggest a hire base might be ideal, one that includes many foreigners on its customer base. Arrive at the spot, having determined when new parties go out on their week or 2 week holidays. 2 fat boats each side of the hire base entrance drop heavy anchors. The canal is now blocked, foreign tourists who have paid a great deal of money for their trips are stuck in port, so to speak. I'm not sure of the legality or otherwise of this but it would definitely cause a stir, most likely make the national news I'd think. How nice, ruining some completely blameless tourists’ holidays. Better still, why not find out where they live and fire bomb their houses, preferably when they and their children are asleep. I agree it's not very nice to ruin an innocent foreigner's trip. On the other if a couple of dozen unwashed rocked up outside CRT head office with banners and the guy with the biggest cojones shouts 'what do we want?' and the rest of the unwashed shout 'equality for fat boats', then, 'when do we want it?', 'now!' reply the masses, repeated until everyone gets bored and goes home, nothing will come of it. CRT would probably acknowledge the protest then do zilch about it. The only way anything can be achieved is by more positive, or negative if you like, action. History is littered with examples of the abject failure of peaceful, or minimal, protests. On the other hand Mandela & co. succeeded in changing the constitution and forcing the resignation of the sitting government of their country not by waving a few banners, but by unswerving dedication to the cause, along with terrorist acts. Power sharing in Northern Ireland would never had happened if Republican protests had been limited to a bunch of lesbians making a load of noise outside an office building. So while nobody in their right mind would set out to murder innocent children in the relatively unimportant cause of avoiding higher licence fees for fat boats, those with strong feelings about it will need to up the anti in order to have any chance of changing anything.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 10:29:36 GMT
Maybe wide boat owners should chain themselves to the lock paddles like the suffragettes did.
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