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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 15:11:57 GMT
I said in my first post that the Lords couldn't simply be abolished because it performs a function and suggested an alternative. A better suggestion would perhaps to make Lloyd George's description a reality and actually appoint 500 random people from the ranks of the unemployed. It would be preferable to them being appointed by MPs. ..... to realise how hopelessly inappropriate it would be to have your average working class bloke making any nationally important decisions. Feckin Posh Twat
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 26, 2018 15:14:25 GMT
He's not posh - he's from Birmingham.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 15:16:22 GMT
I bet he is from Sutton Coldfield
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Post by bills on Apr 26, 2018 15:20:06 GMT
Of course they aren’t perfect. Some have business interests. A few are susceptible to corruption but most don’t need the money. Sounds just like the House of Commons to me, except that last bit. Before wanting to abolish something that serves some purpose, you have to create/invent a better alternative, otherwise you are just iconoclastic for the sake of it, very negative and unhelpful, and easily confused with an envious person. I said in my first post that the Lords couldn't simply be abolished because it performs a function and suggested an alternative. A better suggestion would perhaps to make Lloyd George's description a reality and actually appoint 500 random people from the ranks of the unemployed. It would be preferable to them being appointed by MPs.
Random selection seems to be good enough for choosing people to vote on the outcome of a criminal trial, so it may well be good enough for voting on legislation.
A chamber of say 800 temporary peers chosen at random from all UK citizens, serving for 8 weeks, with 100 changing over every week could be worth looking into.
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 26, 2018 15:34:30 GMT
I said in my first post that the Lords couldn't simply be abolished because it performs a function and suggested an alternative. A better suggestion would perhaps to make Lloyd George's description a reality and actually appoint 500 random people from the ranks of the unemployed. It would be preferable to them being appointed by MPs.
Random selection seems to be good enough for choosing people to vote on the outcome of a criminal trial, so it may well be good enough for voting on legislation.
A chamber of say 800 temporary peers chosen at random from all UK citizens, serving for 8 weeks, with 100 changing over every week could be worth looking into.
It would be an absolute catastrophe. No continuity, no idea what they were doing, numerous transient “pet” self-interest issues. I’d rather have Assad in charge. A jury only works because there is a judge and other court officials telling them what they are allowed to think about, what they are not allowed to think about, and generally steering them through the thought processes. And even then, sometimes it doesn’t work well!
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 26, 2018 15:38:48 GMT
..... to realise how hopelessly inappropriate it would be to have your average working class bloke making any nationally important decisions. Feckin Posh Twat Just a realist, not an air-headed fantasising idealistic sandal-wearing twat! Would you like to have your average working class bloke carrying out neurosurgery on you, mending the plane you are about to fly in etc? Or would you rather they had received years of education and training in that specific role? Note I said “your average...” which does not mean anyone from a working class background is unsuitable to be in government, just that your average bloke with average intelligence and average education and knowledge, isn’t suitable. The average is a pretty low bar!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 15:45:03 GMT
Just a realist, not an air-headed fantasising idealistic sandal-wearing twat! Would you like to have your average working class bloke carrying out neurosurgery on you, mending the plane you are about to fly in etc? Or would you rather they had received years of education and training in that specific role? Note I said “your average...” which does not mean anyone from a working class background is unsuitable to be in government, just that your average bloke with average intelligence and average education and knowledge, isn’t suitable. The average is a pretty low bar! As soon as you dismiss the average working class person you dismiss a significant viewpoint. I wouldn't like all of the House of Lords to be filled with them/us but a percentage would not be a bad thing.
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 26, 2018 16:10:04 GMT
Just a realist, not an air-headed fantasising idealistic sandal-wearing twat! Would you like to have your average working class bloke carrying out neurosurgery on you, mending the plane you are about to fly in etc? Or would you rather they had received years of education and training in that specific role? Note I said “your average...” which does not mean anyone from a working class background is unsuitable to be in government, just that your average bloke with average intelligence and average education and knowledge, isn’t suitable. The average is a pretty low bar! As soon as you dismiss the average working class person you dismiss a significant viewpoint. I wouldn't like all of the House of Lords to be filled with them/us but a percentage would not be a bad thing. No, you dismiss silly ill-informed viewpoints like “Bingo should be provided free by the state” and “let’s eliminate tax” and “let’s get rid of stupid documentaries on telly, and in fact the entire BBC, and instead have endless reruns of “..celebrity get me outta here” and “X-Factor”. And make sure the volume is really loud so I can here the screaming properly. And “let’s make roads near my house 10mph speed limit. No, just past my house silly, not anywhere else! I gotta get to work in a hurry, you know!” Of course there are some entirely sensible, intelligent and well educated working class people whom I would welcome in the Lords. But they are not the average.
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Post by bills on Apr 26, 2018 16:16:20 GMT
Random selection seems to be good enough for choosing people to vote on the outcome of a criminal trial, so it may well be good enough for voting on legislation.
A chamber of say 800 temporary peers chosen at random from all UK citizens, serving for 8 weeks, with 100 changing over every week could be worth looking into.
It would be an absolute catastrophe. No continuity, no idea what they were doing, numerous transient “pet” self-interest issues. I’d rather have Assad in charge. A jury only works because there is a judge and other court officials telling them what they are allowed to think about, what they are not allowed to think about, and generally steering them through the thought processes. And even then, sometimes it doesn’t work well! The revolving hundreds would ensure a degree of continuity
No idea what they are doing? All they have to do is vote yes or no. The size of the chamber should prevent any undue influence on "pet" issues. 800 should be enough of a crowd to achieve some wisdom. Some form of IQ test to test for eligibility would probably be worth considering
The Speakers would have the job of directing the chamber - they are already dressed for it
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 16:22:14 GMT
As soon as you dismiss the average working class person you dismiss a significant viewpoint. I wouldn't like all of the House of Lords to be filled with them/us but a percentage would not be a bad thing. No, you dismiss silly ill-informed viewpoints like “Bingo should be provided free by the state” and “let’s eliminate tax” and “let’s get rid of stupid documentaries on telly, and in fact the entire BBC, and instead have endless reruns of “..celebrity get me outta here” and “X-Factor”. And make sure the volume is really loud so I can here the screaming properly. And “let’s make roads near my house 10mph speed limit. No, just past my house silly, not anywhere else! I gotta get to work in a hurry, you know!” Of course there are some entirely sensible, intelligent and well educated working class people whom I would welcome in the Lords. But they are not the average. In my opinion you have a particularly screwed up view of the working class, in some ways you seem to associate them with everything that is wrong, I could do the same with posh/highly intelligent people. A mix of views gets the best balance in my view, and if that allows some knuckle dragger sandal wearer to balance out Rees Mogg then so be it.
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Post by bills on Apr 26, 2018 16:30:42 GMT
What is "the working class" anyway. I suspect everyone's definition is different.
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Post by naughtyfox on Apr 26, 2018 16:30:50 GMT
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 26, 2018 16:32:53 GMT
No, you dismiss silly ill-informed viewpoints like “Bingo should be provided free by the state” and “let’s eliminate tax” and “let’s get rid of stupid documentaries on telly, and in fact the entire BBC, and instead have endless reruns of “..celebrity get me outta here” and “X-Factor”. And make sure the volume is really loud so I can here the screaming properly. And “let’s make roads near my house 10mph speed limit. No, just past my house silly, not anywhere else! I gotta get to work in a hurry, you know!” Of course there are some entirely sensible, intelligent and well educated working class people whom I would welcome in the Lords. But they are not the average. In my opinion you have a particularly screwed up view of the working class, in some ways you seem to associate them with everything that is wrong, I could do the same with posh/highly intelligent people. A mix of views gets the best balance in my view, and if that allows some knuckle dragger sandal wearer to balance out Rees Mogg then so be it. I can only go by their general behaviour, and that of those few I know. If the masses had any taste, intelligence and knowledge then commercial TV and newspapers/magazines wouldn’t be full of the mindless tripe they currently are full of. In any case, what is working class? Most people in this country work, but many aren’t what you would consider working class. So what are your criteria for being working class? edit: Bills beat me to my question!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 16:42:42 GMT
In my opinion you have a particularly screwed up view of the working class, in some ways you seem to associate them with everything that is wrong, I could do the same with posh/highly intelligent people. A mix of views gets the best balance in my view, and if that allows some knuckle dragger sandal wearer to balance out Rees Mogg then so be it. So what are your criteria for being working class? edit: Bills beat me to my question! <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 36.88000000000011px; height: 6.6200000000000045px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_32213548" scrolling="no" width="36.88000000000011" height="6.6200000000000045"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 36.88px; height: 6.62px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1771px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_53158859" scrolling="no" width="36.88000000000011" height="6.6200000000000045"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 36.88px; height: 6.62px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 234px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_82221730" scrolling="no" width="36.88000000000011" height="6.6200000000000045"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 36.88px; height: 6.62px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1771px; top: 234px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_16170924" scrolling="no" width="36.88000000000011" height="6.6200000000000045"></iframe> Not sure hence my 'them/us' in an earlier post. PS I'm not working at the moment so do I count as unemployed or lazy or unwell or too rich to be bothered...
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 26, 2018 16:46:02 GMT
If you are not working, you are unemployed or retired. Why you are not working is another matter which only you know, but I suggest it’s covered by one of my earlier criteria.
Anyway, it seems odd that you accuse me of having a screwed up idea of the working classes, without you actually knowing what they are!
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