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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 17:08:29 GMT
But then TB would not be a parody of CWDF! ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 17:20:33 GMT
But then TB would not be a parody of CWDF! ;-) That's just too much to take Listen to John at the beginning
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 17:32:47 GMT
Ah...knew there must be a problem.
I'm going to order another guiness and think this through again.
Twats.
Rog
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 5, 2018 18:00:31 GMT
No, you've got that completely arse-about-face, . . . there are places such as Marton Rack that are best tackled no more than an hour or so before Flood (LW) by people who don't know the river well enough to be certain they're not going to ground on the steep-to egdes of the hard marl along side the deep water channel, but for going into the canal at either Stockwith or Keadby local HW is the best time to aim for, with the river nigh on making a level with the canal and the tide dropping slack. Depth at Keadby and Stockwith around local LW is insufficient for anything drawing much more than a canoe. Thanks, so have I got this right? Set off (going down stream) mid-ebb and go through LW, hitting and riding the flood so as to arrive at Stockwith or Keadby at HW? I guess that would be mostly going with the ebb but fighting the flood for an hour or two?
Just wondering whether to go direct from Cromwell to Stockwith, or stop at Torksey to await the next tide. 32 miles is quite a lot to do in a day esp if the timing of the tides aren't great (haven't looked at that yet).
Yes , that's much more like it, except that because the period of ebb gets less and less well defined as you go further upriver, and is more susceptible to being either hastened or delayed by influences such as wind direction and strength, it's best to remove at least some of the imponderables from the reckoning and relate downriver departure times from the likes of Cromwell and Torksey to the state of the tide at Hull - ie. working back from closer to the intended arrival point, instead of working forward from a departure point that's already been subject to greater variations. As far as making decisions on arrival times at Stockwith or Keadby, it's as well nowadays to verify that there actually will be a lock keeper on duty either side of HW at these locks. Back in the days when river borne commercial traffic was still running to the warehouses at Stockwith and Keadby Cut was a convenient short cut to the Leeds or Sheffield areas for the then ubiquitous Sheffield-size commercials, penning into the basin at Stockwith or into the canal at Keadby was invariably a High Water activity with little or no tide running, whereas in today's crackpot world of inland waterways and pleasure craft it's an activity that everyone strives to be participating in when there's barely enough depth of water remaining to get over the inevitable build-up of sand and mud that side-locks such as this always suffer from, and things are made even more difficult because it's also just about the time when the ebb is going to be at it's swiftest.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 5, 2018 18:18:50 GMT
Ok all noted, thanks.
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Post by thebfg on Jul 6, 2018 0:34:50 GMT
Nick has almost nailed it.
I can have a heavy debate or a bit of banter or name calling and will happily chat with the same person seconds later on another thread.
if I am being a dick, call me a dick. just don't hold it against me.
but your right Rog. most of it has no relevance.
edited to add. perhaps I should of quoted Nicks earlier post, I did not realise there was another page to go.
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Post by JohnV on Jul 6, 2018 5:08:38 GMT
while on times Tony, just thought I'd check over my timings with someone wot knows
leave Ocean lock nearest to 3Hrs before HW that they let me, then punch the flood down to Apex . Hoping to make 3 kts for the first hour then 4 for the second getting to Apex approx 1Hr before HW Keadby. Up the Trent with the flood about 9Kts dropping to 7Kts as the flood eases, arriving Keadby around slack water.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 6, 2018 8:08:27 GMT
while on times Tony, just thought I'd check over my timings with someone wot knows leave Ocean lock nearest to 3Hrs before HW that they let me, then punch the flood down to Apex . Hoping to make 3 kts for the first hour then 4 for the second getting to Apex approx 1Hr before HW Keadby. Up the Trent with the flood about 9Kts dropping to 7Kts as the flood eases, arriving Keadby around slack water. With the way 'Sabina' gets along it would probably work out something like that on biggish tides, John, but as well as burning an awful lot of extra fuel stemming the Flood in the Ouse you're going to be penning outside of free tide time at Goole and get mugged by ABP for another £33. I would pen out at Goole right at the end of free tide time (hour and a half after predicted local HW), then after a steady run down to Apex, either dry out on Tackhammer or drop the hook near South Trent Light to wait for the next tide up to Keadby.
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Post by JohnV on Jul 6, 2018 14:00:39 GMT
while on times Tony, just thought I'd check over my timings with someone wot knows leave Ocean lock nearest to 3Hrs before HW that they let me, then punch the flood down to Apex . Hoping to make 3 kts for the first hour then 4 for the second getting to Apex approx 1Hr before HW Keadby. Up the Trent with the flood about 9Kts dropping to 7Kts as the flood eases, arriving Keadby around slack water. With the way 'Sabina' gets along it would probably work out something like that on biggish tides, John, but as well as burning an awful lot of extra fuel stemming the Flood in the Ouse you're going to be penning outside of free tide time at Goole and get mugged by ABP for another £33. I would pen out at Goole right at the end of free tide time (hour and a half after predicted local HW), then after a steady run down to Apex, either dry out on Tackhammer or drop the hook near South Trent Light to wait for the next tide up to Keadby. Thanks for that Tony ...... One of the reasons for doing it the first way is because we'll have Taff, Peterboats sheepdog with us. He likes to do his business ashore not on boats Free penning starts at 2.5 hrs before and that's why I put that timing in ...... was talking to the dock and he was telling me that at the moment it's quiet for Sunday and that if it stays like that they will try and give me a bridge lift before the first pen time and let me pen out at right on 13.15 (HT 15.45) a lot will hinge on any commercials that might delay it ...... if there are no problems with the time I think we will give it a go and reserve Tackhammer/anchoring as a plan B. we will know if we can make it or not by the time we get to Apex. Been told that HW Keadby is about 2hrs after HW Hull on lowish tides which makes it about 16.15. If we are not at Apex by or before 1500 we'll drop the hook just upstream South Trent light. If we can (or can't) make that timing at least it will give me a bit more information for passage planning in the future Cheers Tony !!! PS Of course it would mean waiting for the second tide not the next ........ if you think I'm going up there at two in the morning .......
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2018 14:04:46 GMT
I can't believe someone would alter their journey times just so a dog can have a shit on grass. What about putting a little lawn on the deck head ?
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Post by JohnV on Jul 6, 2018 14:06:31 GMT
Taff is a valued member of the crew and as such his comfort and convenience is important
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Post by peterboat on Jul 6, 2018 14:22:40 GMT
while on times Tony, just thought I'd check over my timings with someone wot knows leave Ocean lock nearest to 3Hrs before HW that they let me, then punch the flood down to Apex . Hoping to make 3 kts for the first hour then 4 for the second getting to Apex approx 1Hr before HW Keadby. Up the Trent with the flood about 9Kts dropping to 7Kts as the flood eases, arriving Keadby around slack water. With the way 'Sabina' gets along it would probably work out something like that on biggish tides, John, but as well as burning an awful lot of extra fuel stemming the Flood in the Ouse you're going to be penning outside of free tide time at Goole and get mugged by ABP for another £33. I would pen out at Goole right at the end of free tide time (hour and a half after predicted local HW), then after a steady run down to Apex, either dry out on Tackhammer or drop the hook near South Trent Light to wait for the next tide up to Keadby. If we did this Tony we would then go all the way to West Stockoth, we dont really want to go to Keadby as there is nowt there, but they will still be open to be penned in at the time we will arrive there
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 6, 2018 22:26:09 GMT
With the way 'Sabina' gets along it would probably work out something like that on biggish tides, John, but as well as burning an awful lot of extra fuel stemming the Flood in the Ouse you're going to be penning outside of free tide time at Goole and get mugged by ABP for another £33. I would pen out at Goole right at the end of free tide time (hour and a half after predicted local HW), then after a steady run down to Apex, either dry out on Tackhammer or drop the hook near South Trent Light to wait for the next tide up to Keadby. Thanks for that Tony ...... One of the reasons for doing it the first way is because we'll have Taff, Peterboats sheepdog with us. He likes to do his business ashore not on boats Free penning starts at 2.5 hrs before and that's why I put that timing in ...... was talking to the dock and he was telling me that at the moment it's quiet for Sunday and that if it stays like that they will try and give me a bridge lift before the first pen time and let me pen out at right on 13.15 (HT 15.45) a lot will hinge on any commercials that might delay it ...... if there are no problems with the time I think we will give it a go and reserve Tackhammer/anchoring as a plan B. we will know if we can make it or not by the time we get to Apex. Been told that HW Keadby is about 2hrs after HW Hull on lowish tides which makes it about 16.15. If we are not at Apex by or before 1500 we'll drop the hook just upstream South Trent light. If we can (or can't) make that timing at least it will give me a bit more information for passage planning in the future Cheers Tony !!! PS Of course it would mean waiting for the second tide not the next ........ if you think I'm going up there at two in the morning ....... Is Taff happy about walking across steel gratings, or being carried over them, John and/or Peter ? If he is then you could do what I used to with my big old black Labrador, Sam, . . . lay on Blacktoft Jetty over LW to get him off for a drain down and a turnout there. There are flights of stairs built in underneath the jetty instead of ladders, and they're accessible from low level platforms that come out as far as the jetty support piles. The stairs and platforms are very slimy and muddy, but they can be washed down and improved quite a bit with the deckwash hose off the g/s pump. You can lay to a single headrope made fast with a bight round one of the jetty piles. Unless ABP have wised up a bit with their surveillance cameras, there are ways of avoiding getting clocked for the laying over charges, . . . so when tides and times worked out that way I used to pen out into the river at Goole in the free tide time and then lay on Blacktoft to wait for the tide up the Trent. You didn't always get away with it, but at least you had an even chance of dodging the Blacktoft layover charges (which were the same as the Goole penning charges) whereas penning at Goole outside of FTT there was no chance at all ! There almost certainly won't be anything much in the way of shipping about on Sunday, there rarely is down around the bottom of Neaps, either up to Goole and Howden, or to the lower Trent wharves as far up as Gunness. ABP have become a right pain in the arse over South Dock Bridge in recent years, and generally will do anything they can to avoid swinging it off. This Sunday, however, they're unlikely to have much else to occupy them because of the small tides, so there's not really going to be any valid excuses for not getting you through the bridge and penned out right at the start of FTT. The figure of Hull HW + 2 hours that someone's given you for HW Neaps at Keadby is wrong. You would have to have the freakiest of a very unusual set of conditions for it to stretch to that length of time. On the poorest of Neaps it's rarely more than an hour and fifteen to twenty minutes at the very most, and on big Springs it's not much more than a minute or two over an hour.
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Post by JohnV on Jul 7, 2018 4:46:21 GMT
Thanks for that Tony ...... One of the reasons for doing it the first way is because we'll have Taff, Peterboats sheepdog with us. He likes to do his business ashore not on boats Free penning starts at 2.5 hrs before and that's why I put that timing in ...... was talking to the dock and he was telling me that at the moment it's quiet for Sunday and that if it stays like that they will try and give me a bridge lift before the first pen time and let me pen out at right on 13.15 (HT 15.45) a lot will hinge on any commercials that might delay it ...... if there are no problems with the time I think we will give it a go and reserve Tackhammer/anchoring as a plan B. we will know if we can make it or not by the time we get to Apex. Been told that HW Keadby is about 2hrs after HW Hull on lowish tides which makes it about 16.15. If we are not at Apex by or before 1500 we'll drop the hook just upstream South Trent light. If we can (or can't) make that timing at least it will give me a bit more information for passage planning in the future Cheers Tony !!! PS Of course it would mean waiting for the second tide not the next ........ if you think I'm going up there at two in the morning ....... Is Taff happy about walking across steel gratings, or being carried over them, John and/or Peter ? If he is then you could do what I used to with my big old black Labrador, Sam, and lay on Blacktoft Jetty over LW to get him off for a crap there, . . there are flights of stairs built in underneath the jetty instead of ladders, and they're accessible from low level platforms that come out as far as the jetty support piles. The stairs and platforms are very slimy and muddy, but they can be washed down and improved quite a bit with the deckwash hose off the g/s pump. You can lay to a single headrope made fast with a bight round one of the jetty piles. Unless ABP have wised up a bit with their surveillance cameras, there are ways of avoiding getting clocked for the laying over charges, . . . so when tides and times worked out that way I used to pen at Goole in the free tide time and then lay on Blacktoft to wait for the tide up the Trent. You didn't always get away with it, but at least you had an even chance of dodging the Blacktoft layover charges (which were the same as the Goole penning charges) whereas penning at Goole outside of FTT there was no chance at all ! There almost certainly won't be anything much in the way of shipping about on Sunday, there rarely is down around the bottom of Neaps, either up to Goole and Howden, or to the lower Trent wharves as far up as Gunness. ABP have become a right pain in the arse over South Dock Bridge in recent years, and generally will do anything they can to avoid swinging it off. This Sunday, however, they're unlikely to have much else to occupy them because of the small tides, so there's not really going to be any valid excuses for not getting you through the bridge and penned out right at the start of FTT. The figure of Hull HW + 2 hours that someone's given you for HW Neaps at Keadby is wrong. You would have to have the freakiest of a very unusual set of conditions for it to stretch to that length of time. On the poorest of Neaps it's rarely more than an hour and fifteen to twenty minutes at the very most, and on big Springs it's not much more than a minute or two over an hour. Thanks Tony That revised time for Keadby certainly makes a difference ....... I'll have a chat with Peter later and we'll decide which way to jump thankyou again
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 7, 2018 7:20:14 GMT
I haven't got a Goole Tide Book for this year , John, so I'm working off Hull times for Goole, but I reckon that end of FTT on Sunday morning is going to be around 0500 hrs, so another alternative is pen out into the river then, run down to Blacktoft and hang a bit on there, or drop the hook in the middle of the river near Blacktoft Reach Light and get Taff off on Blacktoft just before Flood, which should start to run up a bit there by around 1130 - 1145 hrs.
As soon as Taff's finished doing whatever he needs to do you can get underway, round Apex and off up the Trent with all of the Flood, such as it'll be, under you all the way up to wherever you decide to head for that night, . . HW and dropping slack should be around 1615 - 1630 at Stockwith if you fancy going in there.
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