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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 8:48:29 GMT
I don't agree, . . . the squandering of water supplies which has led to so many restrictions on lock usage and canal closures is a direct result of the 'back door' privatization of the responsibility for maintenance of our publicly owned canal and river navigations. Much of our canal system - ours in the sense that they were taken into public ownership in 1948 - is well on the way to reverting to the near derelict state that much of the system was after many, many decades of minimal maintenance and neglect arranged firstly by the privately owned railway companies and finally by Adolf Hitler and his cronies. The present shortage of water supplies for the canals is NOT the inevitable result of a few weeks of hot, dry weather, it IS the inevitable result of of the system being in the hands of a private limited company run by a bunch of incompetent wankers who've been given a free hand to run a national asset into the ground, . . . along with all the water that's needed to keep them navigable ! Yes. The point here though, Mr Know Fuck All about Engines, is that the canals aren't a "national asset". They are a massively subsidised leisure system for people to swan about on. The bee in your bonnet you have about lock leakage makes as much sense as any of the other shit you spout, since water leaking through lock gates simply goes down to the next pound. It has been a hot, dry Summer and so the reservoirs and rivers from which water is abstracted are running dry. Everyone with two brain cells to rub together understands this. Now why don't you jog off and find another brain cell to keep the one you have company? You don't half come out with some crap at times. You have also just presented everyone with your total ignorance of the canal system. Many of the rivers and streams feed, and are fed by canals, especially in the south east. Try having some facts before gobbing off at someone whose intelligence and knowledge far outweighs yours. Perhaps stick to your porn sites?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 9:29:33 GMT
Name calling aside, it's not really lock gate leaks that are especially wasteful of water, but rather the leaks and voids in lock walls and canal banks, as that water is lost to the system.
In addition such leaks are storing trouble for the future as I suspect Middlewich and Liverpool demonstrate.
What annoys me even more is the deceitful 'spin' C&RT put on such failures. It's always due to boater damage, vandalism or wildlife rather than years of neglect and disinterest.
It cannot be denied that rainfall since May has been less than average, coupled with very high temperatures, but I believe this has merely served to exaggerate and highlight the long standing maintenance issues (I.e. lack of it).
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 9:42:03 GMT
What we need is for people doing community service for naughtiness to walk up and down towpaths with buckets. Full on the way up the locks and empty on the way down. Loads of them. Or pumps or summit.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 9:43:53 GMT
Or how about this for an idea.
Tanker boats the size of the locks. You fill the tank with water, take it up the lock and empty it above the lock. If you had a constrant stream of boats doing that the leakage issues would be canceled out.
Boaters to be issued with roof mounted plastic tanks and license discount for anyone who carries extra water up hill.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 9:54:55 GMT
The way to carry water in a leaking bucket is NOT to increase the number of trips but rather to block the leak Rog
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 31, 2018 10:23:45 GMT
Name calling aside, it's not really lock gate leaks that are especially wasteful of water, but rather the leaks and voids in lock walls and canal banks, as that water is lost to the system. In addition such leaks are storing trouble for the future as I suspect Middlewich and Liverpool demonstrate. What annoys me even more is the deceitful 'spin' C&RT put on such failures. It's always due to boater damage, vandalism or wildlife rather than years of neglect and disinterest. It cannot be denied that rainfall since May has been less than average, coupled with very high temperatures, but I believe this has merely served to exaggerate and highlight the long standing maintenance issues (I.e. lack of it). Rog You're bang on with this, Rog. Leaks through the banks and waterway walls in pounds, and through lock chamber and wing walls account for the largest proportion of water wastage. The widespread practice nowadays of not bothering to keep pounds 'on weir' is in fact the root cause of many of these leaks, both long standing and more recently developed. If pound levels are routinely kept well below the intended retention level for a significant length of time, particularly in hot dry spells such as we're now experiencing, the exposed puddle on un-piled lengths dries out, cracks and develops ever worsening leaks as soon as any attempt is made to bring the pound water level back up onto 'weir'. Adding to these newly created leaks through dried out and cracked puddle will be the new, lower level ratholes that the little blighters have a preference for situating just above wherever the 'new normal' water level happens to be. As you say, the recent spell of hot dry weather isn't the root cause of the present water shortages and closures, but it's certainly served to expose the many inadequacies in C&RT's day to day operation and maintenance of our canals.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Aug 4, 2018 6:41:40 GMT
Name calling aside, it's not really lock gate leaks that are especially wasteful of water, but rather the leaks and voids in lock walls and canal banks, as that water is lost to the system. In addition such leaks are storing trouble for the future as I suspect Middlewich and Liverpool demonstrate. What annoys me even more is the deceitful 'spin' C&RT put on such failures. It's always due to boater damage, vandalism or wildlife rather than years of neglect and disinterest. It cannot be denied that rainfall since May has been less than average, coupled with very high temperatures, but I believe this has merely served to exaggerate and highlight the long standing maintenance issues (I.e. lack of it). Rog Leaks through the banks and waterway walls in pounds, and through lock chamber and wing walls account for the largest proportion of water wastage. The widespread practice nowadays of not bothering to keep pounds 'on weir' is in fact the root cause of many of these leaks, both long standing and more recently developed. If pound levels are routinely kept well below the intended retention level for a significant length of time, particularly in hot dry spells such as we're now experiencing, the exposed puddle on un-piled lengths dries out, cracks and develops ever worsening leaks as soon as any attempt is made to bring the pound water level back up onto 'weir'. Adding to these newly created leaks through dried out and cracked puddle will be the new, lower level ratholes that the little blighters have a preference for situating just above wherever the 'new normal' water level happens to be. I've just come across a remarkable piece of world class drivel on C&RT's webshite under the heading of "Drought FAQs" and to be found at :- < canalrivertrust.org.uk/specialist-teams/managing-our-water/drought/drought-faqs >In light of what I said, above, on 31 July, my attention was drawn to the following short passage from it :- The loss of water from a canal pound due to leakage and seepage is the largest component of water demand on a canal system. Loss rates are at their highest during the summer, when soil is dry and water tables are low. The leakiest part of the canal lining is the top 15 cm (6 inches), because it is continually wetted and dried. It is also subject to holes or cracks formed by burrowing animals and wave action from boat propellers. So by increasing the operational level of a pound, especially in a drought, would greatly increase loss rates. During a drought, we actually aim to run pounds as low as operationally possible to reduce losses.Dated 3 days after my comments on the consequences of not keeping canal pounds 'on weir', the goons responsible for publishing this, C&RT's 'water management team' (sic), have stood the whole issue on it's head and are actually presenting the practice of allowing lengthy pounds to remain at the very least several inches down rather than keeping them 'on weir' at all times as a water conservation measure. Words fail me !
Unless something is done very soon to wrest away control of our inland waterways from this clown's collective that calls itself the Canal & River Trust, there won't be any useable canals and river navigations remaining to go boating on.
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Post by Jim on Aug 16, 2018 20:54:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 7:48:31 GMT
The lockies on the L&L reported that there were several farmers with similar problems, all of which C&RT are aware of, yet no action taken.
In fairness most of the minor faults on lock gates (paddles not working etc) had been fixed between our going up to Leeds and our return, which impressed us.
All to no avail if you have to close the canal of course.
Rog
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Post by bills on Aug 17, 2018 7:59:22 GMT
Am I getting this right?
They acknowledge that top 6 inches is the leakiest, because it continuously wets, dries and cracks. So their policy is to reduce the level by a further 6 inches to reduce leakage through the top 6 inches. So we now have the top 6 inches which dries out completely, and the next 6 inches which now continuously wets, dries and cracks. The result is wehave 6 inches of no seal and 6 inches of poor seal, 12 inch depth of failed infrastructure instead of 6.
That sounds like vandalism to me.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Aug 17, 2018 9:08:26 GMT
Am I getting this right? They acknowledge that top 6 inches is the leakiest, because it continuously wets, dries and cracks. So their policy is to reduce the level by a further 6 inches to reduce leakage through the top 6 inches. So we now have the top 6 inches which dries out completely, and the next 6 inches which now continuously wets, dries and cracks. The result is wehave 6 inches of no seal and 6 inches of poor seal, 12 inch depth of failed infrastructure instead of 6. That sounds like vandalism to me. I'm afraid to say that you are, . . . it really is almost beyond belief, isn't it ! The most serious aspect of this is that these clowns are doing cumulative damage to the canals in their charge with their idiotic practices and ideas. Year on year this problem of leakage through the top few inches of the canal bed/sides and puddle is being compounded by C&RT's failure to keep pounds on weir. Eventually the damage will be so extensive and widespread that it'll be held to be uneconomic or impractical to rectify. Make no mistake about it, . . . if canals are left in the hands of this wretched 'Trust' for much longer they'll be knackered beyond redemption.
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Post by kris on Aug 17, 2018 9:09:38 GMT
The lockies on the L&L reported that there were several farmers with similar problems, all of which C&RT are aware of, yet no action taken Not quite no action taken, cart pay hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation to landowners that have water leaking onto their land. This has been going on for years, they consider it cheaper than fixing the leaks. Fair play to the farmer in the article for speaking up. I was talking to one farmer near Barnoldswick who has the same problem, he was getting so exasperated with cart that he was taking them to court.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 9:34:07 GMT
The lockies on the L&L reported that there were several farmers with similar problems, all of which C&RT are aware of, yet no action taken Not quite no action taken, cart pay hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation to landowners that have water leaking onto their land. This has been going on for years, they consider it cheaper than fixing the leaks. Fair play to the farmer in the article for speaking up. I was talking to one farmer near Barnoldswick who has the same problem, he was getting so exasperated with cart that he was taking them to court. I wonder how much of the publicβs money is being wasted on compensation? (not seen it in the acoounts). If that is the policy, and these issues arenβt fixed all over the country, it will only get worse. In theory, the money could run out and it will be used as an excuse to drain the leaky pounds out. Yet another way to bring boating to itβs knees.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 9:51:15 GMT
You know, the more I think about the way things are going, the more I think boaters need to bring stuff like this to the publicβs attention (especially as they have been funding a lot of this)
I have no expertise in PR but the CRT PR machine has done a good job making boaters look like a tiny minority customer. Rather than make us look marginalised, we need to get the public on our side before things fall apart.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 10:00:49 GMT
Sadly boating groups are too polarised to be able to join forces.
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