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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 6:46:32 GMT
Would it be better if everyone just managed their own risk? If you're worried about catching the virus, stay at home and avoid social contact. If you are prepared to take the risk in public spaces, carry on as normal with others who are. Wouid it be a problem if a pub opened up and the staff and punters were prepared to take the risk? Bearing in mind not many pubs would do this yet, would it really overload the NHS with cases? I'm wondering how much of this is about litigation (money again!). I'm sure the smoking ban in pubs was to do with the fear of law suits. What if some pubs allowed smoking by mutual agreement and some didn't? What ever happened to free choice? That is the question and the problem ......
If too many people started doing it then the infection rate would climb and we would be back where we started with another full lockdown
or with a medical service under far more pressure and stress than you have the right to ask of people
What free choice would you be giving people who have accidents or a serious illness that requires an intensive care bed but can't get one because they are full ?
Would you be prepared to walk along a row of seriously ill people and make the decision of who gets treatment and who dies ?
or are you only prepared to ask it of someone else ?
what ever happened to free choice? don't talk bollocks
So you don't believe this is becoming more of nanny state each year then? Where is this overloading on the NHS? Ok, you'll say this just proves how successful the lock down measures were. How do we know this for sure though? Why didn't Sweden suffer an overload on their health service despite not having a nanny state? The problem is that we don't know the full truth behind any of this. At the start of this your argument was based on an additional 500,000 dying this year. That was just as likely to be bollocks as me suggesting that our freedom of choice is being eroded...except that it is.
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Post by JohnV on Jun 7, 2020 7:09:52 GMT
You just live in your own little dream world. reported infections are rising and it is close to going back over the R rate of 1. No the NHS wasn't overloaded but it was put under a hell of a lot of stress .... Far too much stress to ask of people who are doing what is a stressfull job under normal times. Much higher levels of infections and it could well have been overloaded, certainly at certain points. Then you have all the other deaths that will occur because people can't get medical treatment for other diseases. Sweden not having a nanny state? You mean the state that has by far and away the highest levels in Northern Europe and with their own experts saying they got it wrong ? The state whose population is not allowed to travel to the other Nordic states that are opening their borders? If you wish to have total free will then I suggest you find yourself a little uninhabited island or go and live and die in the wilds of Northern Canada on your own. If you live in a society and have the benefits that come from the social grouping then you cannot have total free will .... it always has to be balanced against the good of the group ...... if you cannot accept that then you need to leasve the group .... totally ..... not just ignore the bits you don't like and keep the bits you do.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:16:02 GMT
You just live in your own little dream world. reported infections are rising and it is close to going back over the R rate of 1. No the NHS wasn't overloaded but it was put under a hell of a lot of stress .... Far too much stress to ask of people who are doing what is a stressfull job under normal times. Much higher levels of infections and it could well have been overloaded, certainly at certain points. Then you have all the other deaths that will occur because people can't get medical treatment for other diseases. Sweden not having a nanny state? You mean the state that has by far and away the highest levels in Northern Europe and with their own experts saying they got it wrong ? The state whose population is not allowed to travel to the other Nordic states that are opening their borders? If you wish to have total free will then I suggest you find yourself a little uninhabited island or go and live and die in the wilds of Northern Canada on your own. If you live in a society and have the benefits that come from the social grouping then you cannot have total free will .... it always has to be balanced against the good of the group ...... if you cannot accept that then you need to leasve the group .... totally ..... not just ignore the bits you don't like and keep the bits you do. The R number is meaningless and cant be calculated yet due to not knowing how many people have antibodies. The percentage figure for the those estimated to have antibodies has ranged wildly between a few percent to 50%. Sweden has had less deaths per capita than the UK. Who's living in a bubble?
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Post by JohnV on Jun 7, 2020 7:22:25 GMT
You just live in your own little dream world. reported infections are rising and it is close to going back over the R rate of 1. No the NHS wasn't overloaded but it was put under a hell of a lot of stress .... Far too much stress to ask of people who are doing what is a stressfull job under normal times. Much higher levels of infections and it could well have been overloaded, certainly at certain points. Then you have all the other deaths that will occur because people can't get medical treatment for other diseases. Sweden not having a nanny state? You mean the state that has by far and away the highest levels in Northern Europe and with their own experts saying they got it wrong ? The state whose population is not allowed to travel to the other Nordic states that are opening their borders? If you wish to have total free will then I suggest you find yourself a little uninhabited island or go and live and die in the wilds of Northern Canada on your own. If you live in a society and have the benefits that come from the social grouping then you cannot have total free will .... it always has to be balanced against the good of the group ...... if you cannot accept that then you need to leasve the group .... totally ..... not just ignore the bits you don't like and keep the bits you do. Sweden has had less deaths per capita than the UK. Who's living in a bubble? But ten times that of Norway, the nearest comparable country
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:25:55 GMT
Some good news. I've managed to arrange with my mums carers to see her for half an hour. We'll have to shout at her from the garden (she's very deaf). At 99 we did wonder if we'd ever see her again but if it's good enough for Cummings...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:39:20 GMT
Sweden has had less deaths per capita than the UK. Who's living in a bubble? But ten times that of Norway, the nearest comparable country They are as much 'comparable' as the UK. Whilst comparisons with any other country is flaky, it still remains a fact that they have faired better than the UK per capita. They too have some large cities (so does China who faired even better!). Your figure based on 500,000 was not a fact, it was an estimate. At the start of this the government did the right thing (and maybe still are), however there is a danger that the system they have put in place COULD be used as a stick to restrict freedom in the future....but it seems you believe we aren't heading more and more into nanny state?
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Post by ianali on Jun 7, 2020 7:42:07 GMT
You just live in your own little dream world. reported infections are rising and it is close to going back over the R rate of 1. No the NHS wasn't overloaded but it was put under a hell of a lot of stress .... Far too much stress to ask of people who are doing what is a stressfull job under normal times. Much higher levels of infections and it could well have been overloaded, certainly at certain points. Then you have all the other deaths that will occur because people can't get medical treatment for other diseases. Sweden not having a nanny state? You mean the state that has by far and away the highest levels in Northern Europe and with their own experts saying they got it wrong ? The state whose population is not allowed to travel to the other Nordic states that are opening their borders? If you wish to have total free will then I suggest you find yourself a little uninhabited island or go and live and die in the wilds of Northern Canada on your own. If you live in a society and have the benefits that come from the social grouping then you cannot have total free will .... it always has to be balanced against the good of the group ...... if you cannot accept that then you need to leasve the group .... totally ..... not just ignore the bits you don't like and keep the bits you do. The R number is meaningless and cant be calculated yet due to not knowing how many people have antibodies. The percentage figure for the those estimated to have antibodies has ranged wildly between a few percent to 50%. Sweden has had less deaths per capita than the UK. Who's living in a bubble? Odd thing this R number. I read yesterday that it can be increasing, even though the infection rate is decreasing. You would think, given that we’ve had mass gatherings the last couple of weeks, plus a tendency for many(including some here) to ignore distancing rules, that infections will now rise rapidly. If they don’t then why is that? If they do, I’m not sure we will lockdown again. I don’t think the general public will accept it. I also don’t think the government believe the police are capable of enforcing it, and not sure they can afford anymore strain on the economy.
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Post by JohnV on Jun 7, 2020 7:48:29 GMT
CBA
that's not to your post ianali
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:49:38 GMT
The R number is meaningless and cant be calculated yet due to not knowing how many people have antibodies. The percentage figure for the those estimated to have antibodies has ranged wildly between a few percent to 50%. Sweden has had less deaths per capita than the UK. Who's living in a bubble? Odd thing this R number. I read yesterday that it can be increasing, even though the infection rate is decreasing. You would think, given that we’ve had mass gatherings the last couple of weeks, plus a tendency for many(including some here) to ignore distancing rules, that infections will now rise rapidly. If they don’t then why is that? If they do, I’m not sure we will lockdown again. I don’t think the general public will accept it. I also don’t think the government believe the police are capable of enforcing it, and not sure they can afford anymore strain on the economy. 100% agree with all of that. Cummings probably does too..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:56:32 GMT
Thought I was on the wrong thread !
It's dry and grey here, but not cold, and thankfully the wind has finally dropped.
We need to do some shopping before leaving, and we may do the three miles upto Frankton junction to turn ... we'll see.
It is incredible to be on the Llangollen canal with so few moving boats ... a real one-off opportunity I guess.
Rog
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Post by ianali on Jun 7, 2020 7:59:24 GMT
Thought I was on the wrong thread ! It's dry and grey here, but not cold, and thankfully the wind has finally dropped. We need to do some shopping before leaving, and we may do the three miles upto Frankton junction to turn ... we'll see. It is incredible to be on the Llangollen canal with so few moving boats ... a real one-off opportunity I guess. Rog Sorry Roger. Not the brightest of days here. Have a new loo seat to fit so will be inside boat anyway. Rather envious of you up there..enjoy 😊
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 8:02:47 GMT
Thought I was on the wrong thread ! It's dry and grey here, but not cold, and thankfully the wind has finally dropped. We need to do some shopping before leaving, and we may do the three miles upto Frankton junction to turn ... we'll see. It is incredible to be on the Llangollen canal with so few moving boats ... a real one-off opportunity I guess. Rog If you look back through this thread over the last day or so it seems most people have infected it with Covid. Weather here on the Oxford is overcast but pleasant. There has been a bit more movement but not nearly as much as I would expect over a weekend.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 8:06:02 GMT
Wow ... new loo seat ... you get the best jobs I'm sorry you're unable to cruise off for a few days ... it is quite bizarre that we've got number checkers ensuring we keep moving, yet others are not allowed to do so. Rog
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 8:11:21 GMT
There are lots and lots of viruses and infections in the world. Why pick on one to be paranoid about Rog
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Post by ianali on Jun 7, 2020 8:12:54 GMT
Wow ... new loo seat ... you get the best jobs I'm sorry you're unable to cruise off for a few days ... it is quite bizarre that we've got number checkers ensuring we keep moving, yet others are not allowed to do so. Rog It’s also the most expensive loo seat ever produced I think. My patience is holding, fully expect to be off cruising before this months out. Seems lockdown is ending in most things very soon. Anyway, I’d best get started, as ever with boats it’s not the most simple of jobs.
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