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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 22:06:22 GMT
It's what causes all the problems. It was bound to happen. The world is going to end in 27 years time and it's all because of Persil and their ilk. It's disgraceful. Well at least a great many people don't stink like a pole cat...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 22:14:35 GMT
Yes but that's part of the problem.
One of the issues about being clean is that it encourages closer interaction with other humans.
This leads to recognised problems such as collaboration on projects leading to massive environmental damage and also tends to increase the birth rate.
If humans had simply remained as relatively unwashed individuals with limited social contact the place would be far more "civilised" and have a much higher chance of remaining comfortable.
It's also well known that reduced personal washing increases the chances of successful reproduction with higher quality partners in general terms leading to an improvement in the human race overall which can only be a Good Thing.
Excessive washing is liable to lead to the imprinting of a false impression of valuable human qualities when all it actually means is that the person washes themselves and their clothes too much with soap which is the spawn of the devil and a symbol of an overly commercialised profit driven society.
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Post by JohnV on Mar 6, 2020 22:22:18 GMT
Jim Riley a lot depends on how good your BMS is (the built in management system in the 12 volt battery)
This is where it gets technical ..... in a lead acid battery, the cells self balance, in other words they allow extra current to pass through to the next cell when they are fully charged so all the cell (providing they are not faulty) end up with the same voltage without the first one to be charged getting overvoltaged.
LiFePO4's don't, when the the cell is charged it can't just pass excess charging on to the next cell, instead it continues to increase in voltage until it exceeds it's maximum and becomes damaged. Built in to the battery is a bunch of electronics that basically compensates for this. How well and how quickly it does this depends on who made it.
In theory and with thcells being perfectly in balance the maximum voltage you can charge a LiFePO4 nominal 12v battery is 14.8 V but you are either very brave or have incredible trust in the BMS to do so as even a tiny voltage above this will at best shorten the life of the battery. If the BMS is not extremely good a fraction over might greatly overvoltage one cell in the chain and severely damage it.
The maximum charge voltage reccommended by some manufacturers is 3.65V per cell or 14.6V but why go that high when 14.2v (3.6 volts per cell ) will still charge to 100% and gives you a greater margin of safety. I am quite happy to accept a maximum charge level of near 90% so I have a maximum charging voltage of 14V. (3.5V per cell) This gives me a very high degree of safety and allows for quite considerable imbalance of the cells without any risk of damage ...... as I said before I wanted as near to a fit and forget system as possible with no requirement for sophisticated metering or careful monitoring.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 22:32:20 GMT
Jim Riley a lot depends on how good your BMS is (the built in management system in the 12 volt battery) This is where it gets technical ..... in a lead acid battery, the cells self balance, in other words they allow extra current to pass through to the next cell when they are fully charged so all the cell (providing they are not faulty) end up with the same voltage without the first one to be charged getting overvoltaged. LiFePO4's don't, when the the cell is charged it can't just pass excess charging on to the next cell, instead it continues to increase in voltage until it exceeds it's maximum and becomes damaged. Built in to the battery is a bunch of electronics that basically compensates for this. How well and how quickly it does this depends on who made it. In theory and with thcells being perfectly in balance the maximum voltage you can charge a LiFePO4 nominal 12v battery is 14.8 V but you are either very brave or have incredible trust in the BMS to do so as even a tiny voltage above this will at best shorten the life of the battery. If the BMS is not extremely good a fraction over might greatly overvoltage one cell in the chain and severely damage it. The maximum charge voltage reccommended by some manufacturers is 3.65V per cell or 14.6V but why go that high when 3.6 volts per cell will still charge to 100% and gives you a greater margin of safety. I am quite happy to accept a maximum charge level of near 90% so I have a maximum charging voltage of 14V. This gives me a very high degree of safety and allows for quite considerable imbalance of the cells without any risk of damage ...... as I said before I wanted as near to a fit and forget system as possible with no requirement for sophisticated metering or careful monitoring. Please describe precisely how you achieve this charge limitation
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 22:37:22 GMT
Yes but that's part of the problem. One of the issues about being clean is that it encourages closer interaction with other humans. This leads to recognised problems such as collaboration on projects leading to massive environmental damage and also tends to increase the birth rate. If humans had simply remained as relatively unwashed individuals with limited social contact the place would be far more "civilised" and have a much higher chance of remaining comfortable. It's also well known that reduced personal washing increases the chances of successful reproduction with higher quality partners in general terms leading to an improvement in the human race overall which can only be a Good Thing. Excessive washing is liable to lead to the imprinting of a false impression of valuable human qualities when all it actually means is that the person washes themselves and their clothes too much with soap which is the spawn of the devil and a symbol of an overly commercialised profit driven society.
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Post by JohnV on Mar 6, 2020 22:45:16 GMT
Jim Riley a lot depends on how good your BMS is (the built in management system in the 12 volt battery) This is where it gets technical ..... in a lead acid battery, the cells self balance, in other words they allow extra current to pass through to the next cell when they are fully charged so all the cell (providing they are not faulty) end up with the same voltage without the first one to be charged getting overvoltaged. LiFePO4's don't, when the the cell is charged it can't just pass excess charging on to the next cell, instead it continues to increase in voltage until it exceeds it's maximum and becomes damaged. Built in to the battery is a bunch of electronics that basically compensates for this. How well and how quickly it does this depends on who made it. In theory and with thcells being perfectly in balance the maximum voltage you can charge a LiFePO4 nominal 12v battery is 14.8 V but you are either very brave or have incredible trust in the BMS to do so as even a tiny voltage above this will at best shorten the life of the battery. If the BMS is not extremely good a fraction over might greatly overvoltage one cell in the chain and severely damage it. The maximum charge voltage reccommended by some manufacturers is 3.65V per cell or 14.6V but why go that high when 3.6 volts per cell will still charge to 100% and gives you a greater margin of safety. I am quite happy to accept a maximum charge level of near 90% so I have a maximum charging voltage of 14V. This gives me a very high degree of safety and allows for quite considerable imbalance of the cells without any risk of damage ...... as I said before I wanted as near to a fit and forget system as possible with no requirement for sophisticated metering or careful monitoring. Please describe precisely how you achieve this charge limitation my LiFePO4's only charge from my solar panels ( I have a 1Kw array) via a programmed controller . I also have the facility to use a programmable mains charger from either shore or generator (I have 2 built in generators in the engine room) Sabina H is not a modern canal boat and I have the room. At some point I will rig it to charge from the engine but so far I have not needed it, When I do so I will probably be looking for a fairly crude low tech system, possibly on the lines of a resistive voltage dropper and an accurate voltage control switch to chop it off when the voltage hits say 14 or 14.1V
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 22:51:42 GMT
Yes but that's part of the problem. One of the issues about being clean is that it encourages closer interaction with other humans. This leads to recognised problems such as collaboration on projects leading to massive environmental damage and also tends to increase the birth rate. If humans had simply remained as relatively unwashed individuals with limited social contact the place would be far more "civilised" and have a much higher chance of remaining comfortable. It's also well known that reduced personal washing increases the chances of successful reproduction with higher quality partners in general terms leading to an improvement in the human race overall which can only be a Good Thing. Excessive washing is liable to lead to the imprinting of a false impression of valuable human qualities when all it actually means is that the person washes themselves and their clothes too much with soap which is the spawn of the devil and a symbol of an overly commercialised profit driven society. Sabbath is one of only two bands I have seen live in my lifetime. The other was Michael Jackson.
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Post by mouse on Mar 6, 2020 22:59:35 GMT
Nemesis said "Fray Bentos 'ain't wot it used to be."
Gazza says there is more nutrition in the tin than the contents.
But I like them!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 23:05:18 GMT
Sabbath is one of only two bands I have seen live in my lifetime. The other was Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson was not a band.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 23:07:08 GMT
I did err at using the band description but as he had other people helping with the music backing I thought the term was okay. Maybe "act" might have been more appropriate.
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Post by JohnV on Mar 6, 2020 23:11:03 GMT
Nemesis said "Fray Bentos 'ain't wot it used to be." Gazza says there is more nutrition in the tin than the contents. But I like them! So do I !!! even after going there (1968?) It was a bit of a culture shock, cattle going in one end, tins coming out the other but the people were friendly and I had a great time in the city.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 23:20:11 GMT
Nemesis said "Fray Bentos 'ain't wot it used to be." Gazza says there is more nutrition in the tin than the contents. But I like them! So do I !!! even after going there (1968?) It was a bit of a culture shock, cattle going in one end, tins coming out the other but the people were friendly and I had a great time in the city. Wow, put it like that and I want to throw up / become a vegan. Perhaps we should have a new thread called 'Favourite Pies of All Time'. Personally I like 'Fleur de Lys' Steak and Kidney. I have no interest in knowing what is in it, or indeed where it came from (apart from The Chip Shop).
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Post by mouse on Mar 6, 2020 23:28:05 GMT
Nemesis said "Fray Bentos 'ain't wot it used to be." Gazza says there is more nutrition in the tin than the contents. But I like them! So do I !!! even after going there (1968?) It was a bit of a culture shock, cattle going in one end, tins coming out the other but the people were friendly and I had a great time in the city. Must admit I am happy to leave the butchery to someone else. Long ago conversation. What are all these knives doing in the washing up? Had to cut something up. Really? Yes, you will find Bambi in the freezer. Bowled a Muntjac over on the way home last night!
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Post by Jim on Mar 7, 2020 6:59:04 GMT
I did err at using the band description but as he had other people helping with the music backing I thought the term was okay. Maybe "act" might have been more appropriate. Was he on fire the night you saw him?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 18:42:04 GMT
Please describe precisely how you achieve this charge limitation my LiFePO4's only charge from my solar panels ( I have a 1Kw array) via a programmed controller . I also have the facility to use a programmable mains charger from either shore or generator (I have 2 built in generators in the engine room) Sabina H is not a modern canal boat and I have the room. At some point I will rig it to charge from the engine but so far I have not needed it, When I do so I will probably be looking for a fairly crude low tech system, possibly on the lines of a resistive voltage dropper and an accurate voltage control switch to chop it off when the voltage hits say 14 or 14.1V One of the aspects of the Sterling DC-DC item is that it is programmable with things like overcharge limits. Which is nice. Also, the blurb implies that it can be alternatively connected to a generator. Thus I wonder if the nearly-cheapest offering from Machine Mart has enough power output to do the job. www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-ig950b-800w-inverter-generator/This would be good since it has a claimed fuel consumption rate of 2.1 litres per 5 hours. It has a maximum output of 800W (but continuous 700W). So something that draws a maximum of around 350W would presumably allow the genny to operate at its most efficient and quietest level. The Sterling 60W charger is a pricey gadget, but presumably would fully charge two 100AH lithium batteries easily well inside four hours, and taking into account the batteries would not be completely dead to start with, and a ideal maximum charge of 80-90%, it starts to look more like two hours. If all of this is correct, then a litre-ish of petrol @ about £1.30 or so is all you need. I have no idea how to work out what it would draw in watts. Anybody?
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