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Post by kris on May 22, 2020 13:59:10 GMT
@nemesis Argue no working. nemesis have no argument
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Post by naughtyfox on May 22, 2020 14:01:40 GMT
Indeed ... I see the water and rubbish point at Barbridge junction has gone. I recall they said the bridge was now 'too weak' to support a bin lorry ... but that doesn't explain the loss of the tap. Rog This is the gradual creep to expecting boaters to pay private companies to deal with their waste. Private companies (G4S / Serco) are running Britain's prisons! Everyone seems happy with that.
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Post by kris on May 22, 2020 14:03:50 GMT
I see the time for any sensible discussion has gone. The fox has arrived.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 22, 2020 14:11:32 GMT
I think it's more about being given a bunch of stuff and making the best of it - with navigation being seen as a small part, but annoyingly large cost for their overall vision of a 3,000 mile long waterside footpath/cycleway/fishing spot for the whole population. Very approximately 60 million people, 30,000 boat licences so only 1 in 2,000 potential canal/towpath users has a boat. 2 peeps per boat? ok 1 in 1,000. A tiny minority stake in the real world. But all this behaviour is simply aimed at positioning for more government funding with no regard for much else. To get that funding they have to fail! ...and now it's pretty clear there won't be any. The money is gone. Asking for more will be met with chortles. It's time for a rethink. There won't be more money and though we all suspect the thing could be perfectly well maintained with the money they have...as long as it keeps rolling in... but it won't keep rolling in. Being logical I have to say MM's logic on likelihood of some future privatisation (which I'm sure doesn't represent his wishes as the cheap shots on here always presume in order to attack HIM rather than the elephant in the room) is hard to argue with. Nobody wants this but it's an inevitable conclusion. There will be no (or vastly less) public money for CRT going forwards so what else can happen? 10 fold increase in boat licences wouldn't work - not enough would afford it even if willing. Whilst I agree with much of your post - I just can't see privatisation working in the sense of continued 'free' access for the majority - where is the profit/covering costs going to come from? American corporations such as G4S and Serco who operate at airports (security) and run Britain's prisons could force the prisoners in chain gangs to dredge the canals. They have experience of this sort of thing in the USA.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 14:16:50 GMT
Sorry try use less word next time write. Think you find it be boaters who complain compost in elsan. Think you making shit up about just shit blocking elsan. But whatever. Think you find sewage treatment process sustained since the mid-1800s. More sustainable than leaving your shit in plastic bags. just because something was okay in the 1800’s doesn’t mean it’s good now or going forward. I think you will find the biggest issue with elsans in London is that despite the increase in boaters living aboard in London cart haven’t increased the amount of facilities but decreased the number of available elsans for boaters to use in the capital. This will lead to an increasing number of blockages and breakages when combined with a reduction of maintenance as well. What’s difficult to understand about that? The clever or devious bit depending on your view. Is cart deflecting the blame away from the real issue onto the compost toilet users. But they are very good and have lots of experience at deflecting the blame. It’s a pity they are not so good at maintaining the waterways. Chief Premise-Running-Thin say Kris have massive chip on shoulder and didn't read the part about how it isn't CaRT blaming composters, but other boaters - some of them composters themselves. Incidentally, set in the wall of one of London's sewers still in use is a clay tile which has inscribed on it a legend which reads (in Latin) 'The seventh legion built this sewer'.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 14:20:54 GMT
Whilst I agree with much of your post - I just can't see privatisation working in the sense of continued 'free' access for the majority - where is the profit/covering costs going to come from? American corporations such as G4S and Serco who operate at airports (security) and run Britain's prisons could force the prisoners in chain gangs to dredge the canals. They have experience of this sort of thing in the USA. I appreciate you're kind of workshopping to an extent on this, but I'm liking some of these very progressive offender rehabilitation programmes. We don't have hard scientific evidence (yet), but I think a good old dredge could be very good for the character. I would probably be made to do a bit of dredging myself, if they but knew how disgraceful I am- but I can't sing those slow blues songs that they sing- apparently that's mandatory
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Post by naughtyfox on May 22, 2020 14:25:04 GMT
After all of your exstensive research what are your thoughts about dry toilets? and costs about £300 What?! Can't you just make your own out of some old pallets / scrap wood? And a plastic bucket (2 litre milk container?).
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 14:25:56 GMT
I think you will find the biggest issue with elsans in London is that despite the increase in boaters living aboard in London cart haven’t increased the amount of facilities but decreased the number of available elsans for boaters to use in the capital. I wonder, for about a millisecond, why this might be happening.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 22, 2020 14:27:28 GMT
After all of your exstensive research what are your thoughts about dry toilets? also impressed me about the idea of filtering canal water. Why not try making gold from frog spawn or caterpillars?
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Post by kris on May 22, 2020 14:29:04 GMT
just because something was okay in the 1800’s doesn’t mean it’s good now or going forward. I think you will find the biggest issue with elsans in London is that despite the increase in boaters living aboard in London cart haven’t increased the amount of facilities but decreased the number of available elsans for boaters to use in the capital. This will lead to an increasing number of blockages and breakages when combined with a reduction of maintenance as well. What’s difficult to understand about that? The clever or devious bit depending on your view. Is cart deflecting the blame away from the real issue onto the compost toilet users. But they are very good and have lots of experience at deflecting the blame. It’s a pity they are not so good at maintaining the waterways. Chief Premise-Running-Thin say Kris have massive chip on shoulder and didn't read the part about how it isn't CaRT blaming composters, but other boaters - some of them composters themselves. Incidentally, set in the wall of one of London's sewers still in use is a clay tile which has inscribed on it a legend which reads (in Latin) 'The seventh legion built this sewer'. it’s also boaters blaming scruffy boats for everything and think they should be removed. Certain sections of boaters are saying these things not every boater. Certain sections of boaters will say anything. So what about the increased usage of decreasing numbers, plus a reduction in the amount of emptyings ( on the remote ones that need trucks to visit.) you don’t think this would have effect on the amount of blockages and breakages? Or do you want to conviently forget about the real reason for the decline in standards at services?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 14:29:25 GMT
American corporations such as G4S and Serco who operate at airports (security) and run Britain's prisons could force the prisoners in chain gangs to dredge the canals. They have experience of this sort of thing in the USA. I appreciate you're kind of workshopping to an extent on this, but I'm liking some of these very progressive offender rehabilitation programmes. We don't have hard scientific evidence (yet), but I think a good old dredge could be very good for the character. I would probably be made to some dredging myself, if they but knew how disgraceful I am- but I can't sing those slow blues songs that they sing- apparently that's mandatory Who are hypocrites to judge?
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Post by naughtyfox on May 22, 2020 14:30:12 GMT
I'm absolutely determined to get a dry toilet installed as the first thing I do when I get my boat- which I'm hoping will happen in August. I've found cassettes really unpleasant to deal with in the past- and it might be that the proper chemicals could resolve that. But ultimately, anything that can free me from having to visit an elsan point or public toilet every 4-7 days, let me stay in a quiet rural mooring for a week or two at a time, and costs about £300 is a must-have. Its odd though, how people can look at the pros and cons, and make exactly the opposite decision. Jt's the off-grid capability that also impressed me about the idea of filtering canal water. All I have to do is not look at the canal, ever ;-) It seems extravagant to import coco coir Finns just use sawdust. Our chainsaw makes big piles of this and we just scatter it in the forest. I knew we should bag it and sell it on eBay.
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Post by kris on May 22, 2020 14:30:57 GMT
I think you will find the biggest issue with elsans in London is that despite the increase in boaters living aboard in London cart haven’t increased the amount of facilities but decreased the number of available elsans for boaters to use in the capital. I wonder, for about a millisecond, why this might be happening. yes you have an understanding of why this is happening. It is very easy to demonise the whole community and ultimately get rid of it. It seems it’s nemesis who is having a hard time understanding it.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 22, 2020 14:32:29 GMT
That’s from practical experience is it? Or is it something you read on the internet? White vinegar is the best thing to neutralise the smell from your pee bottle, believe me I’ve tried alsorts. I'm happy to pay around £300 for what is after all a wooden box and some moulded plastic. Get a grip man. As kris says, build your own. Use that £300 to buy toilet paper. As an addition, I saw on a TV programme years ago something about people 'saving the environment' by trying to flush their toilets at home as less-frequently as they could, by saving water. Toilets (the usual kind) work BY USING WATER!! Flush them as often as you can - in fact, whenever I happen to be beside our toilets at home I give them a flush just as a by-the-by. The planet Earth has so much water that it's a wonder the name for the planet isn't 'Water' (there is more water coverage than land by area). Dry toilets will lead to outbreaks of cholera and typhoid.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 14:35:57 GMT
Chief Premise-Running-Thin say Kris have massive chip on shoulder and didn't read the part about how it isn't CaRT blaming composters, but other boaters - some of them composters themselves. Incidentally, set in the wall of one of London's sewers still in use is a clay tile which has inscribed on it a legend which reads (in Latin) 'The seventh legion built this sewer'. Certain sections of boaters will say anything. Credo!
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