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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 15:38:52 GMT
Brian Greaves is the fella, his boat is called Emily Bronte. I remember the boat from years ago. Push tug with a forge in it and a narrow boat in front strapped on. Wasn't it Emily and BrontΓ« due to it being two boats... K&A 2001. Did seem like a proper boater so maybe the same person. I don't remember names. 3 pot Kubota engine and he had a clever pram hinge thing to engage the generator which ran the welder.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Oct 14, 2020 15:41:36 GMT
Brian Greaves is the fella, his boat is called Emily Bronte. I remember the boat from years ago. Push tug with a forge in it and a narrow boat in front strapped on. Wasn't it Emily and BrontΓ« due to it being two boats... K&A 2001. Did seem like a proper boater so maybe the same person. I don't remember names. 3 pot Kubota engine and he had a clever pram hinge thing to engage the generator which ran the welder. Spot on with that!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 15:42:46 GMT
Brian Greaves is the fella, his boat is called Emily Bronte. He was telling me his hands were shot with arthritis, but he's still doing engine work for other people. Had an encyclopaedic knowledge of the cut as well, reeled off every lock and every boatyard between there and Chester.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 15:43:58 GMT
Brian Greaves is the fella, his boat is called Emily Bronte. I remember the boat from years ago. Push tug with a forge in it and a narrow boat in front strapped on. Wasn't it Emily and BrontΓ« due to it being two boats... K&A 2001. Did seem like a proper boater so maybe the same person. I don't remember names. 3 pot Kubota engine and he had a clever pram hinge thing to engage the generator which ran the welder. Same guy I think 07968019203 en-gb.facebook.com/theblacksmithscraft/
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 15:45:35 GMT
I suppose he must be a reasonable age now. I was 27 in 2001 and definitely think he was a bit older. He had a woman and couple of kids on the boat when we saw him down the K&A. He actually did do a bit of welding work on my mum's boat at the time. A bracket holding the silencer had sheared the weld so he put another weld on it. That's how I got to see his workshop .
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Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 15, 2020 11:46:42 GMT
My woes are thus: 1. When tying up the font end, I have to step back onto the boat to reach the cleat on the bow, and this is not ideal- the ledge I step on is generally wet and slippery, and the cratch cover gives me nothing to hang on to, so its all a tad precarious, and I feel its a matter of time before I end up in the drink. My proposed solution was someting I read (here proably), which was to get a T stud or cleat welded to either side of the boat, where it starts to curve around into the bow. This could be reached easily from the bank and would thus reduce my chances of dying from canal water poisoning and/or embarrassment in the near future. 2. A sort of 'ladder rung' or step of some sort welded onto the rear wall of the cabin (or maybe two), to make climbing onto the roof a bit easier/quicker. There is a locker that acts as a stepping stone, but an additional step or rung would be very welcome indeed, if such a thing could be fashioned. 3. When tying the boat up I initially use a nappy pin and the centre line, to hold it roughly in place whilst I tie the bow and stern up to secure it properly. But I'm not doing it right at all. My bodge for this scenario is to tie a painter hitch onto the nappy pin, which has the advantage that it comes undone easily when you want to cast off, and you dont need to feed the full length of the rope through the ring to make the hitch. But you can't take up slack and pull it tight, the way you can with a cleat hitch (to the bow) or a canalman's hitch (on the stern). So its a crappy bodge, and the boat ends up drifting two feet out into the canal whilst I'm at either end tying them up. So what knot or method should I be using to secure the centre line to say a mooring ring or a nappy pin, that will allow me to pull in any slack and keep the boat close to the bank? I can't lead the rope back up to the boat as there's nothing it can hold to on the roof, so my thinking for this is to have a small post welded to each side of the roof, about 6 inches forward of the centre line attachment ring- I could then run the centre line through a ring and back up to the post on the roof, pull in any slack, and tie a canalmans hitch. Before getting extra T-studs/cleats or anything similar welded on anywhere, you can make life easier, and safer, for yourself with some radical changes in the way you're handling the ropes, and the boat itself. The change will need to be away from what has become standard pleasure boat practices and towards handling the boat and it's lines and ropes in a fashion more reminiscent of working boat practices. There were x 5 attachment points for lines and ropes on a working/commercial motor narrowboat, and the positioning of x 4 of them along the length of the boat were the same as horse-drawn boats or the 'buttys' that worked as a pair with the motors. The 5th attachment point on a 'motor' was what was known as a 'back-end rail' and was situated on the bulkhead between the engine-room and the hold, roughly between a quarter to a third of the overall length from the stern, . . and that's where these centre-line attachments found on today's pleasure craft should be ! The two extra cleats/T-studs will be a very useful addition, but they need to go on each gunwhale in a position corresponding with a working motor's back-end rail rather than either side up forard and a little way aft of the T-stud. You can do away with having to either lean a long way out over the water's edge, or get back on board, when you're tying-off on the T-stud by putting a 6'-7' [3' 0''- 3' 6'' long] eye in the forard line with a bowline and then dropping the eye onto the T-stud with a Cow Hitch. All you need to do then is pass the line round or through whatever you got on the shore, back through the shore end of the eye before pulling tight and making it off ashore instead of onboard. Meantime the same procedure, without the Cow Hitch, can be used with the centre line to get it tight, . . but I'll guarantee that once you've got a couple of cleats on each gunwhale around a quarter of the boat's length from the stern, and you've learned how to use a stop rope or springs on them, you'll never bother messing about with a centre line again !
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 14:22:20 GMT
My woes are thus: 1. When tying up the font end, I have to step back onto the boat to reach the cleat on the bow, and this is not ideal- the ledge I step on is generally wet and slippery, and the cratch cover gives me nothing to hang on to, so its all a tad precarious, and I feel its a matter of time before I end up in the drink. My proposed solution was someting I read (here proably), which was to get a T stud or cleat welded to either side of the boat, where it starts to curve around into the bow. This could be reached easily from the bank and would thus reduce my chances of dying from canal water poisoning and/or embarrassment in the near future. 2. A sort of 'ladder rung' or step of some sort welded onto the rear wall of the cabin (or maybe two), to make climbing onto the roof a bit easier/quicker. There is a locker that acts as a stepping stone, but an additional step or rung would be very welcome indeed, if such a thing could be fashioned. 3. When tying the boat up I initially use a nappy pin and the centre line, to hold it roughly in place whilst I tie the bow and stern up to secure it properly. But I'm not doing it right at all. My bodge for this scenario is to tie a painter hitch onto the nappy pin, which has the advantage that it comes undone easily when you want to cast off, and you dont need to feed the full length of the rope through the ring to make the hitch. But you can't take up slack and pull it tight, the way you can with a cleat hitch (to the bow) or a canalman's hitch (on the stern). So its a crappy bodge, and the boat ends up drifting two feet out into the canal whilst I'm at either end tying them up. So what knot or method should I be using to secure the centre line to say a mooring ring or a nappy pin, that will allow me to pull in any slack and keep the boat close to the bank? I can't lead the rope back up to the boat as there's nothing it can hold to on the roof, so my thinking for this is to have a small post welded to each side of the roof, about 6 inches forward of the centre line attachment ring- I could then run the centre line through a ring and back up to the post on the roof, pull in any slack, and tie a canalmans hitch. Before getting extra T-studs/cleats or anything similar welded on anywhere, you can make life easier, and safer, for yourself with some radical changes in the way you're handling the ropes, and the boat itself. The change will need to be away from what has become standard pleasure boat practices and towards handling the boat and it's lines and ropes in a fashion more reminiscent of working boat practices. There were x 5 attachment points for lines and ropes on a working/commercial motor narrowboat, and the positioning of x 4 of them along the length of the boat were the same as horse-drawn boats or the 'buttys' that worked as a pair with the motors. The 5th attachment point on a 'motor' was what was known as a 'back-end rail' and was situated on the bulkhead between the engine-room and the hold, roughly between a quarter to a third of the overall length from the stern, . . and that's where these centre-line attachments found on today's pleasure craft should be ! The two extra cleats/T-studs will be a very useful addition, but they need to go on each gunwhale in a position corresponding with a working motor's back-end rail rather than either side up forard and a little way aft of the T-stud. You can do away with having to either lean a long way out over the water's edge, or get back on board, when you're tying-off on the T-stud by putting a 6'-7' [3' 0''- 3' 6'' long] eye in the forard line with a bowline and then dropping the eye onto the T-stud with a Cow Hitch. All you need to do then is pass the line round or through whatever you got on the shore, back through the shore end of the eye before pulling tight and making it off ashore instead of onboard. Meantime the same procedure, without the Cow Hitch, can be used with the centre line to get it tight, . . but I'll guarantee that once you've got a couple of cleats on each gunwhale around a quarter of the boat's length from the stern, and you've learned how to use a stop rope or springs on them, you'll never bother messing about with a centre line again ! Thanks very much Tony, this is a lot of detail, and it sounds like it will make easier, quicker and safer to get moored securely. I must admit I had considered having cleats welded onto the gunwales, but I hesitated because I cant remember seeing any on other boats, which usually means there's a snag I haven't spotted. I wondered f I might be prone to hitting them with my feet when walking along the sides and holding on to to roof rail- particularly because on the odd occasion I do that, I'm usually focused on where my hands are, and on holding the centre line or whatever I'm carrying. But it does seem that the risk of kicking one occasionally is outweighed by the benefits of having extra securing options. Can I just check something- if I understood that right, you describe the option of taking a mooring line from the boat back to the shore and tying off there. With say a mooring ring, what knot would you use to secure the rope to the mooring ring, once you've led it back to there?
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Post by Clinton Cool on Oct 15, 2020 14:55:47 GMT
Or: Leave your centre line on the towpath, having used it to bring the boat to the side. Secure bow rope first. Do this by pulling on the front rope. This will bring the front end in more, pushing the rear end out. This will bring the cleat or whatever you wrap the rope around much closer to you, making things much safer for you. Caution: be aware of not letting your stern end getting too far out if there's a strong wind blowing off the towpath, can be a bugger to pull it back. Then, secure stern end, throw centre line on the roof or if you're a purist, coil it up neatly.
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Post by metanoia on Oct 15, 2020 15:50:15 GMT
Or: Leave your centre line on the towpath, having used it to bring the boat to the side. Secure bow rope first. Do this by pulling on the front rope. This will bring the front end in more, pushing the rear end out. This will bring the cleat or whatever you wrap the rope around much closer to you, making things much safer for you. Caution: be aware of not letting your stern end getting too far out if there's a strong wind blowing off the towpath, can be a bugger to pull it back. Then, secure stern end, throw centre line on the roof or if you're a purist, coil it up neatly. Personally, I would never tie the bow up before the stern - as long as I can jump back on the "working end" if it's windy/a boat passes/any other eventuality causes bow to drift - then I'm on the tiller or centre line to rectify it. However, I think I must be doing this tying up thing wrong - usually takes me a couple of minutes by myself yet I've lost count of how many times I have witnessed a party of four taking their entire lunchbreak ... and, shame on me, I wouldn't know the name of a knot if it hit me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 15:51:01 GMT
Or: Leave your centre line on the towpath, having used it to bring the boat to the side. Secure bow rope first. Do this by pulling on the front rope. This will bring the front end in more, pushing the rear end out. This will bring the cleat or whatever you wrap the rope around much closer to you, making things much safer for you. Caution: be aware of not letting your stern end getting too far out if there's a strong wind blowing off the towpath, can be a bugger to pull it back. Then, secure stern end, throw centre line on the roof or if you're a purist, coil it up neatly. I agree this will work in calmer conditions with not many boats passing, but as you've said, in breezy conditions, and with me still not being expert at tying up fast, the stern can be halfway across the canal before I've finished tying up the front. And if its summer and there is a lot of boat traffic, it's a tad embarrassing trying to haul the stern in against a wind, using the centre line. The other thing I'm finding is that the grass often overgrows the armco, so I have to take a mooring pin and dig/jab a hole through the grassy overgrowth, so the mooring chain will drop freely down through the gap in the armco- and that often takes another minute or so. So I've gotten into the habit of tying up loosely using the centre line, giving myself a bit more time to tie up the bow and stern properly without the boat drifting off. At the moment, with the cleats and posts I have, what I need to tide me over is a knot that will allow me to pull the centre line tight onto a mooring ring or pin, and secure it quickly. Secondly, if I can find a knot that doesn't need the full length of rope to pass through the mooring ring, that would be even better. The mooring hitch does the second part of that, but not the first- I cant find a way of pulling it tight.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 15:55:25 GMT
It can be dodgy tying up a boat to the bank rather than returning the line to the boat itself.
On the cut you risk ending up with dog waste of some sort on the knot and on rivers if the level goes up it can prove awkward to untie the thing. I usually prefer to bring the rope back and make fast on the boat hardware.
I have seen a dog shitting on a mooring pin.
Also if you get land pirates or incredibly scary scrotes it may be necessary to untie and disappear fast. If the rope is secured to the bankside hardware then you would have to cut it and thereby lose useful cordage.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 16:14:53 GMT
I have two similar to this www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282797068184Mounted just behind the cratch board, they work exceptionally well, rope doesn't interfere with the board. They are bolted through the gunwale so easy to fit. I can pass C ropes and she can tie up without leaving the deck. I rarely use the T-stud at the front as its a PITA to reach. A quick and dirty way to tie to a pin is to take the bight of the rope wind it round the pin a couple or tgree of times then pass it through the eye and over the top of the pin. Juggling lengths takes practice but once mastered it takes seconds. For a ring pass the bight of the rope through the ring bring it back towards the boat then a couple or three half hitches and your done.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 16:27:13 GMT
It can be dodgy tying up a boat to the bank rather than returning the line to the boat itself. On the cut you risk ending up with dog waste of some sort on the knot and on rivers if the level goes up it can prove awkward to untie the thing. I usually prefer to bring the rope back and make fast on the boat hardware. I have seen a dog shitting on a mooring pin. Also if you get land pirates or incredibly scary scrotes it may be necessary to untie and disappear fast. If the rope is secured to the bankside hardware then you would have to cut it and thereby lose useful cordage. I would prefer to lead the line back to the boat to tie it off, but at the moment there is nothing on the roof apart from the centre line ring itself. Even the roof handrail is a protruding ridge design, not an actual rail that you can loop a rope onto. Once I get a bit more ironmongery on the roof I'll bring the centre line back there for sure. I'm considering a short post or a cleat/stud, either on the gunwale or on the roof rail, perhaps a few inches forward of the centre line ring. On the gunwale I'm bound to kick it at some point, but on the roof it could foul the centre line if I was to lead it forwards for some reason.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 17:02:00 GMT
Centre lines aren't really ideal for tying up with. Ok for occasional use but not really appropriate for mooring.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 17:21:36 GMT
Centre lines aren't really ideal for tying up with. Ok for occasional use but not really appropriate for mooring. I'm not trying to use the centre line to moor the boat as such, but rather to keep it stationary alongside the bank for a few minutes, whilst I secure the bow and stern properly. So its just a first step thing. That said, I tend to leave the centre line tied on anyway, but that's not for mooring reasons- its because when I do cast off again a day or two later, the centre line plays a similar role to when I stopped, i.e. keeping the boat close in to the bank whilst I untie the bow and stern. So at the moment its the first line tied up as a temporary holding method, and its the last line cast off. Its probably only an issue because I'm not very quick at tying the bow and stern up (yet), but it is more of a thing in breezier weather- but of course we have had a fair bit of that recently. When it's quite windy and there is no armco, I must make quite a comedic spectacle trying to hold the boat steady with the centre line around my waist whilst I hurriedly knock in a mooring pin to hold it properly. Although sometimes challenging, its good learning to do everything single handed, because even if a gf/partner was to move aboard (which is very very unlikely), I would always know how to manage everything during the times they were not around.
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