Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 8:38:00 GMT
I would hazard a guess that a canalmans hitch is the same as a lightermans hitch.
A really good one for heavy boats on the Thames going downhill is the steamer hitch.
Only works on the bollards with the horizontal bars. It looks to most people like you have tied the boat up so as the lock empties it appears that your boat will hang up. What will actually happen is that the rope will slip as none of the turns are binding.
I had a really funny example of this when going down a lock with a gin palace. I secured boat with steamer hitches at each end then went to operate the lock controls.
Boats descended and lady on gin palace started yelling at me "untie your ropes your boat is going to get caught up".
I just said "it's ok don't worry" she became more and more agitated but as usual the ropes slipped bit by bit and held boat to side nicely. Then when lock empty just lift ropes off. Nothing gets jammed.
It just works on friction. Really good actually. You need quite thick ropes they were 18mm diameter.
|
|
|
Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 16, 2020 8:54:59 GMT
I'm sure that it claimed that the bowline with the end on the outside (Cowboy bowline) was weaker than the one with the end on the inside. I've known a few bargemen who could quite reasonably be described as cowboys, . . but I'm happy to say that the one who taught me to tie a Bowline with the end on the outside didn't fall into that category. As a mildly amusing aside, the - sometimes - friendly rivalry that used to exist between the Hull trade boatmen who generally used the Ouse with loads for Sheffield or Leeds and the ones who regularly traded up the Trent to Lincoln or Nottingham, led to the 'Trent' men generally referring to an eye made in barge mooring or stop-ropes with a Bowline as a ''Goole Splice'' !
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Oct 16, 2020 8:58:18 GMT
I would hazard a guess that a canalmans hitch is the same as a lightermans hitch. A really good one for heavy boats on the Thames going downhill is the steamer hitch. Only works on the bollards with the horizontal bars. It looks to most people like you have tied the boat up so as the lock empties it appears that your boat will hang up. What will actually happen is that the rope will slip as none of the turns are binding. I had a really funny example of this when going down a lock with a gin palace. I secured boat with steamer hitches at each end then went to operate the lock controls. Boats descended and lady on gin palace started yelling at me "untie your ropes your boat is going to get caught up". I just said "it's ok don't worry" she became more and more agitated but as usual the ropes slipped bit by bit and held boat to side nicely. Then when lock empty just lift ropes off. Nothing gets jammed. It just works on friction. Really good actually. You need quite thick ropes they were 18mm diameter. Does the steamer hitch have any other names, googling steamer hitch brings up problems with the Waverley, Knot nots. Mind you it probably wouldn't work on the square wooden bollards common round here.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 9:00:27 GMT
I think it's Thames specific. Named after the Thames steamers. It was a lock keeper who showed me it. It's similar to the lightermans hitch in that the rope goes under itself then around the horizontal bitts, if that makes sense. The basic idea is to get some friction but not put anything on which will bind. ETA next time I am going through a Thames lock I will try to remember to get a photo of this hitch on one of the Thames bollards. They are quite distinctive bollards, different from the canal ones. These bollards (don't know where I stole the image from)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 9:12:20 GMT
I agree, these anser pins look a great idea, and much reduce the potential tripping hazard compared to a T stud. I must apologise here, I didnt quite grasp all of Tony's explanation of how you tie up using one of these things. E.g. If I fitted one to the gunwale in the centre of the boat, I could take the centre line through a nappy pin and lead it back and through the shackle. After doing that, is this where the rolling hitch comes into play as the knot that will secure the line? Is the idea that you secure the rope to itself- i.e. you dont tie a knot onto to a cleat or stud? Anyway, . . enough of the gospel according to me for the moment, . . Are you feeling ok?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 9:13:28 GMT
As I said earlier (not explained well) just take the bight of the rope back towards the boat and tie it to itself with a couple of half hitches. No need for extra hardware. Two half-hitches round the standing part can slip under intermittent or 'snatch' loading.Β A Rolling Hitch - which is two half-hitches with the first one taking two turns round the standing part instead of only one - is more reliable, and if made carefully and correctly with all the turns set hard up against each other, will never slip. Whilst this is undoubtedly true, I use this method only for very temporary mooring, never had it slip. I guess I must be very lucky
|
|
|
Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 16, 2020 9:14:35 GMT
I would hazard a guess that a canalmans hitch is the same as a lightermans hitch. I'm not sure what a Lighterman's Hitch is either. Nobody ever gave names to the way ropes were made off. You just got shown how to do it, . . once, . . or sometimes twice if you had an especially good natured skipper . . followed by severe and rather abrupt bollockings until you got it right !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 9:20:44 GMT
Run the rope around a couple of times then take a bight under the standing part and drop it over the top of the post/bollard. Some people do it twice.
Also called a tugboat hitch. Nice and easy to form and it never lets you down because it does not bind tight.
It's my most used securing method when on the Thames in locks which have the other type of bollards with no horizontal bars/pins.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 9:29:26 GMT
I agree, these anser pins look a great idea, and much reduce the potential tripping hazard compared to a T stud. I must apologise here, I didnt quite grasp all of Tony's explanation of how you tie up using one of these things. E.g. If I fitted one to the gunwale in the centre of the boat, I could take the centre line through a nappy pin and lead it back and through the shackle. After doing that, is this where the rolling hitch comes into play as the knot that will secure the line? Is the idea that you secure the rope to itself- i.e. you dont tie a knot onto to a cleat or stud? In post#1 you mentioned a ''Cleat Hitch'' and a "Canalman's Hitch". Neither of these are names I'm familiar with, so can you or anyone else, Andrew perhaps, post a photo or drawing of these. Photo's or drawings of a Cow Hitch, a Rolling Hitch, a Sheet Bend, and a Bowline Bend would also be useful. There are two ways of making a Bowline Bend, with the rope-end inside the bight/eye or the rope-end outside the bight/eye. The former is OK for use at sea, but the latter with the rope-end outside the eye is the one for canal or river use, . . for either forming an eye in a heavy(-ish) rope for throwing over a shore bollard from on board on the rare occasions that needs to be done from a small/narrow canalboat, or for passing the standing part of a (lighter) line through to run more easily and tighten with the bight/eye under tension. Cleat Hitch Canalmans Hitch Rolling Hitch Sheet bend and Bowline
|
|
|
Post by Trina on Oct 16, 2020 9:36:02 GMT
There are more questions than ansers. I am now singing that...π
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 9:36:14 GMT
Two half-hitches round the standing part can slip under intermittent or 'snatch' loading. A Rolling Hitch - which is two half-hitches with the first one taking two turns round the standing part instead of only one - is more reliable, and if made carefully and correctly with all the turns set hard up against each other, will never slip. Whilst this is undoubtedly true, I use this method only for very temporary mooring, never had it slip. I guess I must be very lucky Also very quick to tie. But what is it? Overhand knot? Two half-hitches on-the-bight?
|
|
|
Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 16, 2020 9:47:03 GMT
Anyway, . . enough of the gospel according to me for the moment, . . Are you feeling ok? Yes, . . fine thanks ! But there is a limit to just how much scattering of pearls before swine I'm prepared to do at any one time. By the way, . . I've been meaning to ask you about those working boat videos you posted on here a little while ago, and if you know of any others with similar content. One of them, the pair of boats [ Renfrew and Lucy] loading at the top of Atherstone for the Southall 'Jam Hole' from Baddesley Pit, was crewed by some old friends and colleagues of mine, Bill and Rose Whitlock, their son Michael, and Rose's cousin Laura Carter, from when I worked a pair of sub-contracting boats on the same job from the late 1960's until the factory closed and the boats stopped running in 1970. It was the last ever long distance narrowboat carrying contract from the Midlands to the London area, and it finished very shortly after the only other remaining coal job from Donisthorpe Pit near Measham to Dickinson's paper mills at Croxley.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 9:50:28 GMT
Yes, . . fine thanks ! But there is a limit to just how much scattering of pearls before swine I'm prepared to do at any one time. By the way, . . I've been meaning to ask you about those working boat videos you posted on here a little while ago, and if you know of any others with similar content. Yes, of course, but I'm shit out of pearls myself.
|
|
|
Post by kris on Oct 16, 2020 9:57:50 GMT
Yes, . . fine thanks !Β Β But there is a limit to just how much scattering of pearls before swine I'm prepared to do at any one time. By the way, . . I've been meaning to ask you about those working boat videos you posted on here a little while ago, and if you know of any others with similar content.Β Yes, of course, but I'm shit out of pearls myself. where as Tonyβs good at shitting out pearls.
|
|
|
Post by TonyDunkley on Oct 16, 2020 9:57:52 GMT
Yes, . . fine thanks ! But there is a limit to just how much scattering of pearls before swine I'm prepared to do at any one time. By the way, . . I've been meaning to ask you about those working boat videos you posted on here a little while ago, and if you know of any others with similar content. Yes, of course, but I'm shit out of pearls myself. Happens to the best of us !
|
|