Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 11:26:55 GMT
The only thing we own is our labour, which we sell.
What we earn from honest toil we spend on what we need or choose to.
I suspect talk of profligate greed is a minority issue.
Rog
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 11:33:23 GMT
That's a good attitude I like it. For some unknown reason I don't possess a similar attitude. Believe me I wish I did. I really really wish I did
|
|
|
Post by bodger on Oct 21, 2020 11:43:52 GMT
The author sets out the problem pretty well. However, if the intention is to 'level up' this can only exacerbate the climate problem given that those on lower incomes, if given pay rises, tend to spend the extra on consumer goods. Rather than limit growth this would tend to accelerate it because a much larger number of people would have more money in their pockets whereas a smaller number would have less, which they don't tend to spend anyway. What he suggests might be good for 'social equality' but there's no point in having great social equality if there's no planet left. My suggestion would be to introduce a new tax to replace VAT. Essentials would be completely free of tax. Essentials would include basic clothes, essential household goods and anything bought to repair something. Sales of other goods would be 'graded' into new tax bands depending on their 'essentialness' and environmental damage they cause. Tax on bicycles for example, could be zero. There could even be different tax rates for certain goods that recognises that they are needed, but to discourage excess. For example; cars up to £15K could have a low tax applied to them, say 10%. £15-30K cars 20%, £30-50K cars 35%, above £50K 50%. 'Eat out to help out' showed how changes to fiscal policy can have dramatic effects on people's behaviour. we could even re-introduce supertax on high earners. AFAIK the highest rate of income tax was 19/6 in the pound - i.e. 97.5%.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 11:49:21 GMT
The author sets out the problem pretty well. However, if the intention is to 'level up' this can only exacerbate the climate problem given that those on lower incomes, if given pay rises, tend to spend the extra on consumer goods. Rather than limit growth this would tend to accelerate it because a much larger number of people would have more money in their pockets whereas a smaller number would have less, which they don't tend to spend anyway. What he suggests might be good for 'social equality' but there's no point in having great social equality if there's no planet left. My suggestion would be to introduce a new tax to replace VAT. Essentials would be completely free of tax. Essentials would include basic clothes, essential household goods and anything bought to repair something. Sales of other goods would be 'graded' into new tax bands depending on their 'essentialness' and environmental damage they cause. Tax on bicycles for example, could be zero. There could even be different tax rates for certain goods that recognises that they are needed, but to discourage excess. For example; cars up to £15K could have a low tax applied to them, say 10%. £15-30K cars 20%, £30-50K cars 35%, above £50K 50%. 'Eat out to help out' showed how changes to fiscal policy can have dramatic effects on people's behaviour. we could even re-introduce supertax on high earners. AFAIK the highest rate of income tax was 19/6 in the pound - i.e. 97.5%. All that happens then is people leave the country and become tax-exiles. I once had the pleasure of working for a tax-exile it meant I paid no uk tax that year as I was also out of the country.
|
|
|
Post by peterboat on Oct 21, 2020 12:40:08 GMT
I think Ricco is right with a bit of tuning it would make people think twice about how they spent their money
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Oct 21, 2020 13:14:54 GMT
The author sets out the problem pretty well. However, if the intention is to 'level up' this can only exacerbate the climate problem given that those on lower incomes, if given pay rises, tend to spend the extra on consumer goods. Rather than limit growth this would tend to accelerate it because a much larger number of people would have more money in their pockets whereas a smaller number would have less, which they don't tend to spend anyway. What he suggests might be good for 'social equality' but there's no point in having great social equality if there's no planet left. My suggestion would be to introduce a new tax to replace VAT. Essentials would be completely free of tax. Essentials would include basic clothes, essential household goods and anything bought to repair something. Sales of other goods would be 'graded' into new tax bands depending on their 'essentialness' and environmental damage they cause. Tax on bicycles for example, could be zero. There could even be different tax rates for certain goods that recognises that they are needed, but to discourage excess. For example; cars up to £15K could have a low tax applied to them, say 10%. £15-30K cars 20%, £30-50K cars 35%, above £50K 50%. 'Eat out to help out' showed how changes to fiscal policy can have dramatic effects on people's behaviour. Your suggestion re tax has merit .. and could be achieved by adjusting VAT rates. I wonder where items purchased purely for leisure purposes, like narrowboats, would fit. I anticipate people that live on them full time would demand a lower tax rate because it was an 'essential' purchase, even though they generally avoid the tax that houses attract and it's a lifestyle choice. Eat out to help attracted a lot pf people who are more familiar with eating from a paper bag, and have no idea how to behave when in restaurants. Good point about narrowboats, I had similar thoughts before posting. I would imagine that narrowboats as a leisure 'tool' would be deemed to be highly damaging (they probably are) and therefore attract one of the higher levels of the new tax. It might be possible to have a lower tax for those who don't own other property. This is exactly what happens with houses at the moment. Another candidate for zero tax would be energy. This might seem counter intuitive given that energy use is damaging but VAT on gas and electric is a very regressive way to earn the government revenue. Not what you want if you're trying to create a fairer society. Losses in this area could be offset by higher sales taxes on non essential, damaging consumer goods and the damage created by likely higher energy use mitigated by less consumption of the now much more expensive non essential goods.
|
|
|
Post by naughtyfox on Oct 21, 2020 13:59:11 GMT
The author sets out the problem pretty well. However, if the intention is to 'level up' this can only exacerbate the climate problem given that those on lower incomes, if given pay rises, tend to spend the extra on consumer goods. Rather than limit growth this would tend to accelerate it because a much larger number of people would have more money in their pockets whereas a smaller number would have less, which they don't tend to spend anyway. What he suggests might be good for 'social equality' but there's no point in having great social equality if there's no planet left. My suggestion would be to introduce a new tax to replace VAT. Essentials would be completely free of tax. Essentials would include basic clothes, essential household goods and anything bought to repair something. Sales of other goods would be 'graded' into new tax bands depending on their 'essentialness' and environmental damage they cause. Tax on bicycles for example, could be zero. There could even be different tax rates for certain goods that recognises that they are needed, but to discourage excess. For example; cars up to £15K could have a low tax applied to them, say 10%. £15-30K cars 20%, £30-50K cars 35%, above £50K 50%. 'Eat out to help out' showed how changes to fiscal policy can have dramatic effects on people's behaviour. we could even re-introduce supertax on high earners. AFAIK the highest rate of income tax was 19/6 in the pound - i.e. 97.5%. Nineteen sixths? What are you dithering about you old fool?
|
|
|
Post by naughtyfox on Oct 21, 2020 14:04:06 GMT
we could even re-introduce supertax on high earners. AFAIK the highest rate of income tax was 19/6 in the pound - i.e. 97.5%. All that happens then is people leave the country and become tax-exiles. I once had the pleasure of working for a tax-exile it meant I paid no uk tax that year as I was also out of the country. The 'Brain Drain'. Why work for the NHS in the dreary old UK full of Wetherspoons, BetFreds and every second shop in the high street a charity shop when you can buy a plane ticket to Seattle making a mint in a private hospital advising overly-fat people how to slim or get winched out of their bedroom window by the Fire Brigade? The UK is a spent match. You won't find Philip Green's yacht in Limehouse Basin.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 14:39:55 GMT
You won't find Philip Green's yacht in Limehouse Basin. Firstly the entrance lock is too small and secondly why would anyone want to have such awful scum anywhere near them? I would say if the character you refer to disappeared from the UK and never came back this would be a better place. The less people like that about the better.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 16:42:05 GMT
I hate Pink Floyd. I also have no interest in generating money. This is actually a bit of a problem for me as at the current cash burn rate I will run out in a few years and no idea what to do after that. No safety net, no investments, no property, no job prospects. Oh well we are all different. Some people do chase money and really like it. Some don't. You only live once. I'll be quite happy if I live to experience being well off and having nothing. Worse things happen at sea. At least thats what they say. From riches to rags. It is said that you get what you order and life outcomes are a result of what you do or don't do. The whole system is based on people's fear of that nothingness and starving. I did find it quite eye opening when a woman phoned in a radio station talking about food banks. The first thing she mentioned was paying for her Sky. Then going to the food bank. It was not a joke. If that is all true about your future, I suggest inexperience of being actually righteously no hope poor is making you into a fool. You fell for the Sky/foodbank thing hook line and sinker as one would expect the likes of foxy to do. Life with no money isn't a romantic ideal I would encourage, I've been there with no options - I can assure you that for anyone who likes to be, must be, in control of their life that situation is intolerable. But hey, I could sell your collection of boats, buy one small one, cheap mooring on the coast and live on the proceeds for 10-15 years. You don't have much to worry about in the real world. It's easy to lack respect for money when you've never been short of it. I don't think it was a wind-up. Everyone has their 'if you don't have that you've got nothing' sacred cow. For one guy I l knew, it was having a car. Even though he was on benefits he allocated about half his income to having wheels. A girl I met once most emphatically said for her it was sex. Getting her brains fucked out nightly was a top priority. I don't doubt that for the phone woman Sky was the bottom line.
|
|
|
Post by bodger on Oct 21, 2020 16:48:17 GMT
we could even re-introduce supertax on high earners. AFAIK the highest rate of income tax was 19/6 in the pound - i.e. 97.5%. Nineteen sixths? What are you dithering about you old fool? 1/11 for 20 fags, 1/5 for a half of pale ale, 4/6 for a gallon of petrol, 5 bob for a Champion spark plug.
enuff of the "old fool" you iggorant young git.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 16:49:49 GMT
The only thing we own is our labour, which we sell. Actually Marx said something about that but he wasn't happy about it (summat about labour being the only genuine commodity). There was some other stuff about how wealth is continuously concentrated into a smaller and yet smaller percentage of the population. But whatever.
|
|
|
Post by naughtyfox on Oct 21, 2020 18:43:16 GMT
"You fell for the Sky/foodbank thing hook line and sinker as one would expect the likes of foxy to do. Life with no money isn't a romantic ideal I would encourage" Eh? No, I appreciate a bit of money and comfort. But I have studied and worked hard to get the little I have. I get annoyed at those who have money poured into their laps when they (in my opinion) don't deserve it. 'Footballers' earning millions? I may devote more time being 'woke' and a benevolent and magnanimous benefactor to good causes, just like Megs & Harry - when I have a big house and fancy jet plane, just like them! First things first! As for the future of the world... well, I can't see humans changing much - the greedy and stronger ones will always be those with the goons protecting them, and in charge. We'll end up like in the Elysium movie, mark my words: "In the year 2154, humanity is sharply divided between two classes of people: The ultra-rich live aboard a luxurious space station called Elysium, and the rest live a hardscrabble existence in Earth's ruins."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 19:17:01 GMT
As for the future of the world... well, I can't see humans changing much - the greedy and stronger ones will always be those with the goons protecting them, and in charge. We'll end up like in the Elysium movie, mark my words: "In the year 2154, humanity is sharply divided between two classes of people: The ultra-rich live aboard a luxurious space station called Elysium, and the rest live a hardscrabble existence in Earth's ruins." That's the Extinction Rebellion argument. Ultra wealthy people will fuck off to Mars (or similar) leaving the rest of humanity to fight over a wrecked uninhabitable planet. Also the theme of Total Recall, of course. So many old stories being rehashed.
|
|
|
Post by ianali on Oct 21, 2020 20:36:17 GMT
"You fell for the Sky/foodbank thing hook line and sinker as one would expect the likes of foxy to do. Life with no money isn't a romantic ideal I would encourage" Eh? No, I appreciate a bit of money and comfort. But I have studied and worked hard to get the little I have. I get annoyed at those who have money poured into their laps when they (in my opinion) don't deserve it. 'Footballers' earning millions? I may devote more time being 'woke' and a benevolent and magnanimous benefactor to good causes, just like Megs & Harry - when I have a big house and fancy jet plane, just like them! First things first! As for the future of the world... well, I can't see humans changing much - the greedy and stronger ones will always be those with the goons protecting them, and in charge. We'll end up like in the Elysium movie, mark my words: "In the year 2154, humanity is sharply divided between two classes of people: The ultra-rich live aboard a luxurious space station called Elysium, and the rest live a hardscrabble existence in Earth's ruins." Another picking on footballers? Why just them? What about golfers? Racing car drivers? Rugby players? Tennis? Snooker? Poker players? Baseball? Shall I continue? At least all of these require a talent, a skill that few have.
|
|