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Post by JohnV on Jan 15, 2021 8:06:35 GMT
I come somewhere between the two points of view.
Generally I have a very cynical view of any prominent personality promoting a cause for government intervention in social matters.
When a government begins to support other than in particular circumstances it often puts a completely unfair load onto those who have to pay for it by their dilligence and hard work.
The Victorians had a term "deserving poor" much maligned by later socialists. They were correct in their condemnation of this attitude because of it's extreme harshness but there was a core of common sense in the idea.
Social assistance should benefit those who, for no fault of their own are in desperate circumstances and not just to a level of a miserable survival. It should not benefit those who play the system, nor those who make no or little effort to change their circumstamces. There are far too many people who make a very decent living by playing the system.
(and it is a system that is easily manipulated by those who know it's ways but totally baffling and impossible to handle by those who realy need it)
At a certain stage the costs become too great to fund and the level of assistance is cut ..... unfortunately the ones who are hit the hardest by this will often be the most deserving of help.
The situation at the moment is a bit different to the normal and there is no doubt that schools being closed has been a double whammy to many low income famillies ..... restricting their ability to work and increasing their financial problems further. For some school children who receive free school meals, this is a critically important part of their diet and removing it could have long term consequences for their development.
Without doubt there will be many in the target group who come under the pisstaker category but there is no way to discriminate in time for the measure to help, so it just has to be blanket.
So well done to someone who used his public profile to point out and help fill a need in desperate times
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Post by ianali on Jan 15, 2021 8:34:20 GMT
Nothing against Rashford. I watched the recent documentary which he was in. He seemed like a really nice bloke. I can't imagine anyone disliking him. There again, just because he's a nice bloke doesn't make him an expert on social affairs or the politics that surround this. Yes, he was brought up in a single parent family but the fact that he went on to be an elite footballer doesn't make him an expert in social matters, any more than you or I are. Perhaps his childhood was more difficult than yours and/ or mine but coming from a position of adversity might give you a perspective but it neither makes you an expert nor the arbiter of right and wrong. Rather than the entire media sucking up to Rashford perhaps they might ask him if things might have been better for him and others in similar situations if there had been a father around, as well as a mother. Perhaps then, he wouldn't have gone hungry when he was young. I realise that many would view this as an extreme position, in the current climate. That's ok, the media/ establishment can put a sticking plaster over reality for as long as it wishes to but at the end of the day, the truth will prevail. To be clear, It was your reference to him being semi literate that I was picking you up on. I know for a fact that Marcus worked hard to achieve a decent level of education, passed exams at A level and can read and write to an acceptable level. Iβd not dream of getting into a debate with you over your views on feeding kids. Having read some of your posts, I know very well where you stand on the topic.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2021 8:53:35 GMT
Can I ask which of these CHILDREN are 'playing the system' and deemed to be unworthy of help ... or are responsible for being in single parent families and therefore should go hungry ?
Rog
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Post by Jim on Jan 15, 2021 9:20:33 GMT
It was in Smethwick.(Smerrick).We had a few circus experience days which the kiddiwinks loved. That's the one. Must have been early 90's. I remember performing for a class of 8yr old lads, they were enjoying it immensely, they started stamping their feet in appreciation. The teacher came down on them like a ton of bricks - put a damper on the proceedings. The kids probably hadn't seen live performance before, unsure of how to react. Sometimes that's part of my job as a performer - as a "clown" I'm allowed to break the wall between stage and audience and interact directly, which I would have done it the teacher hadn't piled in. I remember the head seemed a bit of a dragon too.
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Post by Jim on Jan 15, 2021 9:30:53 GMT
Nothing against Rashford. I watched the recent documentary which he was in. He seemed like a really nice bloke. I can't imagine anyone disliking him. There again, just because he's a nice bloke doesn't make him an expert on social affairs or the politics that surround this. Yes, he was brought up in a single parent family but the fact that he went on to be an elite footballer doesn't make him an expert in social matters, any more than you or I are. Perhaps his childhood was more difficult than yours and/ or mine but coming from a position of adversity might give you a perspective but it neither makes you an expert nor the arbiter of right and wrong. Rather than the entire media sucking up to Rashford perhaps they might ask him if things might have been better for him and others in similar situations if there had been a father around, as well as a mother. Perhaps then, he wouldn't have gone hungry when he was young. I realise that many would view this as an extreme position, in the current climate. That's ok, the media/ establishment can put a sticking plaster over reality for as long as it wishes to but at the end of the day, the truth will prevail. To be clear, It was your reference to him being semi literate that I was picking you up on. I know for a fact that Marcus worked hard to achieve a decent level of education, passed exams at A level and can read and write to an acceptable level. Iβd not dream of getting into a debate with you over your views on feeding kids. Having read some of your posts, I know very well where you stand on the topic. How do we know his lack of literacy isn't down to dyslexia of some form? A couple of my grandchildren struggle with it, I have a neighbour who pops round with letters and forms for help. I just help without question or comment - people don't like to be thought of as illiterate, it's often lazily attributed to laziness and stupidity.
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Post by patty on Jan 15, 2021 9:43:53 GMT
Whatever our views on celebs jumping on social bandwagons..whether it be starving kids, water aid etc etc...without them I do not think help would materialise.... They do have their uses. I see them as a means to an end. I wish that those in need would get help without the Marcus's of this world but they don't...or not in the same way. It would be even better if all the super wealthy could donate and set up schemes in their names ..give practical as well as verbal support to issues. As for the issue of whether kids should be fed...as has been said they don't ask to be born into poverty...
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Post by JohnV on Jan 15, 2021 11:32:20 GMT
Can I ask which of these CHILDREN are 'playing the system' and deemed to be unworthy of help ... or are responsible for being in single parent families and therefore should go hungry ? Rog don't be deliberately dense
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2021 11:45:00 GMT
Can I ask which of these CHILDREN are 'playing the system' and deemed to be unwortin 2021y of help ... or are responsible for being in single parent families and therefore should go hungry ? Rog don't be deliberately dense Nothing of the sort. It's so easy for people to declare who is or isn't deserving ... I was merely emphasising that the issue raised was about feeding CHILDREN ! I suspect no one sets out to have a shit life and there (but for good fortune and the blessing of people willing to help and guide us) goes any of us. Surely in 2021 it should not be an unreasonable expectation that kids who need feeding should get it and of good quality ? Rog
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2021 12:23:27 GMT
They should be put into factories so our manufacturing sector can compete with China and we buy British products !
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Post by Trina on Jan 15, 2021 12:39:18 GMT
It was in Smethwick.(Smerrick).We had a few circus experience days which the kiddiwinks loved. That's the one. Must have been early 90's. I remember performing for a class of 8yr old lads, they were enjoying it immensely, they started stamping their feet in appreciation. The teacher came down on them like a ton of bricks - put a damper on the proceedings. The kids probably hadn't seen live performance before, unsure of how to react. Sometimes that's part of my job as a performer - as a "clown" I'm allowed to break the wall between stage and audience and interact directly, which I would have done it the teacher hadn't piled in. I remember the head seemed a bit of a dragon too. Don't know if it was one of your days ,but I had a go at juggling for one activity,then trying to get round the playground whilst trying to balance on a giant ball.I had a lot of assistance with the second activityπ.
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Post by Jim on Jan 15, 2021 13:04:18 GMT
That's the one. Must have been early 90's. I remember performing for a class of 8yr old lads, they were enjoying it immensely, they started stamping their feet in appreciation. The teacher came down on them like a ton of bricks - put a damper on the proceedings. The kids probably hadn't seen live performance before, unsure of how to react. Sometimes that's part of my job as a performer - as a "clown" I'm allowed to break the wall between stage and audience and interact directly, which I would have done it the teacher hadn't piled in. I remember the head seemed a bit of a dragon too. Don't know if it was one of your days ,but I had a go at juggling for one activity,then trying to get round the playground whilst trying to balance on a giant ball.I had a lot of assistance with the second activityπ. Well done you, especially surviving the walking globe. IMHO one of the most dangerous bits of kit for a beginner, very easy to come off quickly and badly. Again IMHO, it's the class idiot, no sense, no fear, relaxed and chilled out, who succeeds quickly with the dangerous skills. Anyone with sense gets tense with panic and then can't maintain balance. Does that ring a bell? ππππ PS, it wouldn't have been me, I wouldn't use a walking globe in short sessions, no time to supervise.
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Post by ianali on Jan 15, 2021 13:20:52 GMT
That's the one. Must have been early 90's. I remember performing for a class of 8yr old lads, they were enjoying it immensely, they started stamping their feet in appreciation. The teacher came down on them like a ton of bricks - put a damper on the proceedings. The kids probably hadn't seen live performance before, unsure of how to react. Sometimes that's part of my job as a performer - as a "clown" I'm allowed to break the wall between stage and audience and interact directly, which I would have done it the teacher hadn't piled in. I remember the head seemed a bit of a dragon too. Don't know if it was one of your days ,but I had a go at juggling for one activity,then trying to get round the playground whilst trying to balance on a giant ball.I had a lot of assistance with the second activityπ. Things in life Iβd pay to see...π
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Post by JohnV on Jan 15, 2021 13:31:41 GMT
don't be deliberately dense Nothing of the sort. It's so easy for people to declare who is or isn't deserving ... I was merely emphasising that the issue raised was about feeding CHILDREN ! I suspect no one sets out to have a shit life and there (but for good fortune and the blessing of people willing to help and guide us) goes any of us. Surely in 2021 it should not be an unreasonable expectation that kids who need feeding should get it and of good quality ? Rog so you are of the opinion that all the families receiving free school meals are deserving ? that none are on the fiddle for what ever they can get ? do you believe that every familly receiving benefits is deserving ?
If this is so I have this great offer for you for a superb classic second hand car for sale
You know damn well I was referring to the parents and not the children and I had already said that there wouldn't be time to check everything so it would have to be blanket
if you criticise me at least do it for what I actually say and not what you think I say
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Post by thebfg on Jan 15, 2021 13:38:01 GMT
To be clear, It was your reference to him being semi literate that I was picking you up on. I know for a fact that Marcus worked hard to achieve a decent level of education, passed exams at A level and can read and write to an acceptable level. Iβd not dream of getting into a debate with you over your views on feeding kids. Having read some of your posts, I know very well where you stand on the topic. How do we know his lack of literacy isn't down to dyslexia of some form? A couple of my grandchildren struggle with it, I have a neighbour who pops round with letters and forms for help. I just help without question or comment - people don't like to be thought of as illiterate, it's often lazily attributed to laziness and stupidity.Β I don't think he is illiterate. I think the comment was based on his views on footballers in general. I'm pretty sure he does the meals and book thing because he was so poor growing up he admits he never really read books till he was 17 because his family couldn't afford them.
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Post by thebfg on Jan 15, 2021 13:44:23 GMT
Benefits and stuff are certainly a hot topic on here.
Its hard because some children through no fault of their own need all the help they can get.
On the other hand some parents are blatantly playing the system.
Some parents are from the entitled generation and expect stuff on a plate. Their idea of poverty is going half board in ibiza instead of fully inclusive.
If giving stiff to these entitled benefit cheating scum is the only downside of helping people genuinely in need, that is a small price to pay.
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