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Post by quaysider on Oct 2, 2021 6:32:47 GMT
If all the alternators work OK it has to be something else. If you replaced the isolator and it worked either it was faulty or something you disturbed/tightened whilst working fixed it. What did you touch? What did you stand on? If a cable from alternator B+ direct to battery worked, you have bypassed some wiring and the isolator switch, inspect all the wiring in between, every joint, nick and connection. If there is a problem with the LED warning lamps and the associated shunt resistors in the control panel or the D+ wiring down to the alternator, you can bypass it all by temporarily connecting a 12v light BULB, not LED, of 2 to 5 watts between the B+ terminal and the D+ terminal on the alternator. The bulb should light when you connect it and go out when you start the engine and the alternator should then be charging. This what Telemachus was pointing at isn't it? It's happened again yesterday morning... started up, lights on pre start, stay on for half a second or so and then go off. Nothing changed on the voltage and no "dip" to indicated a strain on the engine as you expeect when the alternator starts putting in last nights take out. Revving didn't make any difference so I turned it off and back on again and still nothing. Leaving the engine running (we were untiying and heading off) and all of a sudden about 5 mins later, "dip" and charging began. All seemed fine until we stopped for lunch and I thought 'oh well, it's working now so I may as well put the washer on in case it packs up when we are desperate.... worked ok for a few minss (filled it with hot water anyway) and dipped as the drum turned/rested etc... then it just stopped and the voltage dropped down to 12.6 12. depending on what the washer was doing. Chugged off after lunch to water point (by now solar was chucking in 19 amps and when we stopped to fill with water, I hat a quick look at the gauge and bugger me, it was working again - quick check of the toaster to see if it dipped heavily and yep ... it worked. That lasted until I turned off about 4pm... but on restarting again, "nothing" once more. I've got sidde light bulb from a garage in High line yesterday )£3.50( and will solder a couple of wirse on when I get chance later (at the time I got it, it was still working) - my question to both you fellows in regards connecting it between B + and d+ is do I need to remove the wiring loom that is currently connect to d + or won't it make any difference? I'm going in to New Mills marina tonight to connect up to the mains to save the batteries being damaged and I have a full genny of petrol AND A gallon in a tank for the return trip to Stone next week if I can't get it sorted by then I HAVE asked the Simon chap mentioned from Braunston if he'd come to stone to try and resolve it once and for all, but he doesn't travel ( I suppose he's got enough work local so I don't blame him) so I'll have to try and find someone when we get tied up down there - not a lot of point trying local up here as it's the weekend again apparaently.
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Post by tonyb on Oct 2, 2021 6:46:15 GMT
As long as there is no short circuit on the D+ wire, it can be left connected. If you connect the bulb with the ignition off, the normal lamp might glow. I think the D+ is a push on connector, so just in case you have a short circuit, I would take it off. Then you should not get any funny indications that lead you up the wrong path.
Don't take too much notice of this but if the B+ wire shorts to negative the warning lamp may well say on and the output appear to be zero, but in that case I would expect you to have a burning cable so It's less likely.
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Post by JohnV on Oct 2, 2021 7:38:59 GMT
quaysider Mark, try not to get too wound up about this or start doubting yourself. Intermittent electrical faults are tha bane of every maintenance/repair mans life, if you let them they will drive you screaming up the wall. The more bits there are in the system the worse it is, You disconnect something and it works fine "ah ha" you think and re-connect and it goes wrong "got it" you think, so you disconnect it again .....and 5 minutes later it stops again everytime you get set up to measure things .... it works. The minute you move on to another bit .... it stops Grrrrrrrr !!!
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 2, 2021 8:20:44 GMT
Once the alternator starts working, it doesn’t need the D+ / light connection to keep working. One thing that could stop it working is a short to negative in the D+ to bulb wiring, but that would bring on the warning light. Therefore, from your description of the behaviour, I think we can eliminate anything to do with the D+ / warning light circuit.
So that leaves an intermittent connection somewhere in the B+ to battery positive, or B- / case to battery negative wiring. The next time the engine is running but no charge, it would only take a few moments to measure any voltage drop between B+ and battery positive terminal (the actual battery positive post, not the connector) and between alternator case /B- terminal and battery negative terminal post. These voltages should be well below 0.5v. If 2v or so, there is a break in continuity in that circuit. And also I suppose check the voltage between B+ and B- just to be sure that the alternator is working but no charge getting through. 14.4v or more expected if the alternator is working but not supplying current.
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 2, 2021 8:30:22 GMT
… but try the bulb on D+ and B+ anyway, I suppose it is just possible that some intermittent connection is fooling us by bringing on the warning light, then vibration just as the engine starts to turn over, is disconnecting it. Don’t forget to disconnect the bulb when you stop the engine, otherwise it will remain on permanently.
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Post by quaysider on Oct 3, 2021 6:53:04 GMT
typical... I have soldering iron working but no flux or solder to be found... I know I did have BOTH but they are in hiding. More annoying is the brilliant hardware shop here in New Mills (Upper peak forest) has a sign on the door saying "Michelle is running in the London marathon so we are closed from 1st to 4th October" grrrr
I don't know who Michelle is but it's certainly poor timing from my point of view.
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Post by JohnV on Oct 3, 2021 7:07:46 GMT
typical... I have soldering iron working but no flux or solder to be found... I know I did have BOTH but they are in hiding. More annoying is the brilliant hardware shop here in New Mills (Upper peak forest) has a sign on the door saying "Michelle is running in the London marathon so we are closed from 1st to 4th October" grrrr I don't know who Michelle is but it's certainly poor timing from my point of view.
Cor !! 4 days for the Marathon ...... ah well, it could be worse, it might have been Lloyd Scott doing the marathon in a suit of armour again (6 days in 2012)
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Post by quaysider on Oct 5, 2021 6:43:30 GMT
] Well, the little hardware shop opened and I went in to buy some solder/flux. Whilst rutting, she asked what I was doing (maybe Michelle the marathon runner but she looked a little chubby for that to be likely) and she then said "oh don't faff around with that, here"... and promptly produced a little 12v bulb, holder and crocodile clips. Brilliant. SO I made up the little thing and tested it with a pp3 ? (or were they called pp9s? can't remember ) just to make sure IT worked. However, on turning the invertor off and unplugging the shoreline (to be on the safe side) bugger me, when I cranked the engine up, it worked fine... climbed to 14.6 volts in a matter of seconds. Switched it on and off a few times (engine that is) and it continued working. So I'm no further forward other than having the little bulb thingy to the ready. I DID get a call from Clive Penny to talk things through - seems a decent bloke and he'll give me call in a couple of weeks when he's stone bound... although, talking through the troubleshooting I've already done, he too a bit perplexed. He Also does the 2002 non private boat BSS that I need in Jan so at least that's another thing organised (well half organised) when he comes. Just need it to keep working until 15th October and THEN stop in readiness for his visit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2021 6:58:50 GMT
Whilst rutting, she asked what I was doing . Oh deer, was that a typo?
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Post by quaysider on Oct 5, 2021 7:19:39 GMT
no
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2021 7:22:31 GMT
Must be a northern thing.
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Post by JohnV on Oct 5, 2021 7:32:05 GMT
Well done .... that is a handy bit of test kit to keep after this is all over So I'm no further forward other than having the little bulb thingy to the ready. What did I say about intermittent faults ?
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Post by quaysider on Oct 5, 2021 7:36:48 GMT
Well done .... that is a handy bit of test kit to keep after this is all over So I'm no further forward other than having the little bulb thingy to the ready. What did I say about intermittent faults ? do you honestly think I'll be able to FIND it? - I've already lost the solder I went BACK in for afterwards... 'just in case'
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Post by JohnV on Oct 5, 2021 7:45:24 GMT
do you honestly think I'll be able to FIND it? - I've already lost the solder I went BACK in for afterwards... 'just in case' I do know that scenario ..... at the moment I'm hunting for the breadknife ..... I borrowed it from the galley for something I was working on .... and the bloody thing has escaped !!!
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Post by pearley on Oct 5, 2021 8:07:46 GMT
If he hasn't retired, try Frances Arnot 07880 713734. Based in Stone.
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