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Post by Tony Dunkley on Aug 22, 2022 2:40:32 GMT
In reply to Tony Dunkley saying this on Aug 21, 2022 at 9:52:42 GMT :-
If this is the "mention" you're talking about - "As the authoritative expert on the Ribble Link that Alice insists he is, . . you would have expected Shit-for-Brains to have noticed what was happening, . . and to include a mention of it in the drivel he's posted on here." - perhaps you should ask him why he's been so careful up to now to avoid mentioning that C&RT do in fact allow, and operate, two-way working on the non-tidal section of the Ribble Link.
Mr Stabby said :
I know they do, they were doing two-way working on the day I went northbound because a couple of days' crossings had been cancelled due to adverse weather. I haven't been "careful to avoid mentioning it". The lock keepers at Tarleton said it isn't done routinely as it makes for a longer day for everyone and there isn't sufficient demand for the crossing to make it necessary.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Aug 22, 2022 2:54:07 GMT
17 hours ago Mr Stabby said :-
I know they do, they were doing two-way working on the day I went northbound because a couple of days' crossings had been cancelled due to adverse weather. I haven't been "careful to avoid mentioning it". The lock keepers at Tarleton said it isn't done routinely as it makes for a longer day for everyone and there isn't sufficient demand for the crossing to make it necessary.
-- and Tony Dunkley replied : -
That's absolute rubbish, . . the length of time for which a tide lock is, or can be, operated is governed entirely by the tide, . . having boats penned though in both directions instead of only one-way doesn't affect the time period over which the lock can be operated.
Besides which, . . operation of the 8 locks on the Ribble Link is NOT dependent on tide times. All 8 locks on the Ribble Link can be operated - ie. boats penned through - at any time. When the half-tide gate in Savick Brook is in the raised/closed position there is 1.5m or 5' of water over the bottom/outer cill of Lock No.8 -- independently/irrespective of the height or state of the tide in the Ribble.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Aug 22, 2022 3:07:06 GMT
16 hours ago Mr Stabby said :-
Well, that's what the ground crew at Mayors Boatyard, who operate Tarleton lock, told me so if you have any issue with that then I suggest you take it up with them.
However, I think you'll find that lock keeping isn't their only job or even a substantial part of it. But like I said, ask them.
-- and Tony Dunkley replied :-
The responsibility for having lock keepers in attendance at a sea-lock - and that's what Tarleton Lock is - over the period when the state of the tide allows penning, rests with the navigation authority with control of the lock, or with what's known as the 'competent harbour authority'. At Tarleton, the C&RT is both, . . and as such is also obliged, by law, to provide 'refuge from the tide' for any vessel able (by virtue of its draught, length, and breadth) to pass through any sea-lock at any given state of the tide.
I don't doubt that what you've been told about lock operation at Tarleton is true, . . but the ultimate responsibility, obligation even, to provide lock keeper coverage there on demand or whenever needed is the navigation/competent harbour authority's. I will be taking the matter up in the coming week, . . but it won't be with Harry Mayor and the others at Tarleton.
Thanks for passing on what you were told by them, . . very useful to know. It seems to me that C&RT's one-way only operation nonsense has far more to do with C&RT side-stepping as much of its lock operation duties and responsibilities as it can - and dumping as much of them on Mayors Boatyard as it can - than it has ever had to do with the "safety concerns" it states it has over two-way operation in the Douglas and the Ribble, . . something that made no sense at all.
I was astounded when C&RT admitted last week that its one-way operation only rule between Tarleton and the Ribble Link (Preston end) canal basin had NOTHING whatsoever to do with width, or passing difficulties, in Savick Brook. After having let that cat out of the bag, C&RT's NW Region Boating & Customer Service Manager was noticeably reluctant to go into any further detail, . . and I did wonder why. I think you may have just provided the answer.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Aug 22, 2022 3:21:59 GMT
16 hours ago Tony Dunkley said :-
I was astounded when C&RT admitted last week that its one-way operation only rule between Tarleton and the Ribble Link (Preston end) canal basin had NOTHING whatsoever to do with width, or passing difficulties, in Savick Brook.
-- and Mr Stabby replied :-
Why's that then? Even on days when two-way operation is in effect, there is no possibility of boats passing each other in Savick Brook. Both northbound and southbound boats would cross at or near Asland Lamp.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Aug 22, 2022 18:26:17 GMT
16 hours ago Tony Dunkley said :-I was astounded when C&RT admitted last week that its one-way operation only rule between Tarleton and the Ribble Link (Preston end) canal basin had NOTHING whatsoever to do with width, or passing difficulties, in Savick Brook. -- and Mr Stabby replied :-Why's that then? Even on days when two-way operation is in effect, there is no possibility of boats passing each other in Savick Brook. Both northbound and southbound boats would cross at or near Asland Lamp. There's absolutely no sound reason whatsoever for not having pleasure craft making passage between Tarleton and the Lancaster Canal, in either direction, and on every day that there's a big enough daylight tide. Whichever direction they're going, NO craft, but especially those inbound for the Lancaster Canal, should be anywhere near either the Savick Brook outfall or the Asland Light at or near to local High Water. Negotiating locations in ANY tidal river, at local HW, where there's extensive shoaling AND a difficult to follow navigation channel is ill-advised to say the least, and should be avoided if at all possible. Even those with extensive up to date local knowledge can be sometimes be "caught out" by the changes to and movement of mud and sand banks in the space of a very few tides. When you say - "there is no possibility of boats passing each other in Savick Brook" - are you putting that down to limited width and depth in Savick Brook, . . or the fact that the departure times from Tarleton or Preston result in everything that's underway on passage meeting up in the vicinity of the Asland Light ? I'd also be very interested to know if you can tell me, for future reference, the two exact locations where the Ribble Link begins and ends. I'd also be just as interested to know if you can tell me, for future reference, the two exact locations where the navigable tidal, semi-tidal, and non-tidal sections of the Savick Brook begin and end.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Aug 23, 2022 5:53:15 GMT
I think it appropriate to separate this subject from the Winter CC in the NW thread. Much confused, uninformed and unhelpful content has been heaped on top of what was already a rather confused subject in the Winter CC in the NW thread -- not least of all, in the general lack of clarity as to what the Ribble Link actually is, . . and precisely where it begins and ends. It will, no doubt, come as a surprise to some that it does NOT begin or end - depending on the direction of travel - at Tarleton Lock, on the Leeds & Liverpool's Rufford Arm. It begins, or ends - depending on the direction of travel - at a Half-tide Barrier, approximately half a mile downstream of the A583 Blackpool Road Bridge, in what is known locally as Savick Brook -- a land drainage watercourse, with its outfall into the tidal River Ribble, that was widened and deepened sufficiently to allow the passage of small pleasure craft, 'canalised' by means of locks, and opened to pleasure craft traffic in July 2002. The other end of the Ribble Link - approximately 4 miles from the half-tide barrier/gate is the canal basin, off the Lancaster Canal, on the outskirts of the town of the Lancashire town of Preston. There are many questions to be answered with regard to how - to give it its full title - the Millenium Ribble Link is operated, maintained and financed. Is it feasible to increase the numbers of pleasure craft using it, for instance, and why is there a nonsensical obligatory one-way only working regime imposed on what is, when all's said and done, simply a 4 mile long, non-tidal, small scale canalised river navigation ? Why does the Canal & River Trust [C&RT] - the navigation/competent harbour authority for the Ribble Link - impose such an amateurish, ill-conceived tidal passage planning/scheduling regime between Tarleton Lock, where the Leeds & Liverpool's Rufford Arm meets and joins the tidal River Douglas, and the half-tide gate/barrier, situated close to the A583 road bridge over the Savick Brook, . .where the navigation - the Ribble Link - becomes semi-tidal for approximately half a mile before becoming non-tidal at Lock No.8 for the remaining three and a half miles to the canal basin where it joins the Lancaster Canal ? Why does the C&RT persist with outdated and unnecessarily costly annual maintenance dredging methods on the Ribble Link in preference to adopting the much less costly, and more operationally practical and effective, plough dredging methods used nowadays by other harbour authorities and port operators to maintain berths and navigation channels at the required least depths ? Ok so you are generally pissed off with CRT, we know that, we agree with some of your concerns. Can't we just have a technical discussion on how it might work, without the tedious name calling? What tedious name calling ? There isn't any name calling, . . tedious or otherwise, . . in the post you quoted and replied to. Have you mistaken, or misread, the term - "competent harbour authority" - for something other than its actual meaning ? I would be delighted to have a technical discussion on this or any other subject, . . but to do that it's essential that all would be participants take the trouble to properly read, and to fully understand, the posts they reply to, . . BEFORE replying.
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Post by kris on Aug 23, 2022 10:30:02 GMT
Itβs always better to have a conversation with yourself, at least everybody agrees with you then.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 14:51:27 GMT
I see TD is becoming a bit of a post whore.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 15:07:14 GMT
I see TD is becoming a bit of a post whore. Is that similar to Post Captain?
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Oct 8, 2022 12:07:13 GMT
Updates for this topic, . . as soon as all the idiots have lost interest in their latest exhibition of mindlessness.
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Post by kris on Oct 8, 2022 14:52:06 GMT
Yes yes we know, in three weeks right?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2022 17:26:26 GMT
While U Wait have a read of this for educations www.hmsrichmond.org/348test.htmNautical slang (a very comprehensive list) I would like to add "Slide Merchant" which is those twat rowers in silly narrow vessels with sliding seats, no buoyancy or stability and ridiculous oars. Eta and the legally required dickhead attitude problem.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Oct 9, 2022 9:32:07 GMT
Updates requested via e-mail only.
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Post by naughtyfox on Oct 9, 2022 9:43:20 GMT
Any calls?
"You have no messages."
Odd. Better check the outgoing.
"If you utter so much as one syllable I'll hunt you down and gut you like a fish! If you'd like to fax me, press the star key."
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CRT
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Post by CRT on Oct 9, 2022 16:04:44 GMT
The Ribble Link is now closed. The 2023 timetable has not been finalised but we expect crossings to resume in the first week of April.
Of course, we could easily operate it until then but we get a perverse thrill from pissing off the boaters whose licence fees pay for our top-of-the-range company cars. And even those non-boaters from which we make a fair bit of money via our bogus bailiffs and our local scrap metal merchant.
Anyway, we at Leeds wish you a happy closed season. We will try to have parts of the system operational for when the hire boats start going out.
Further updates will be provided as and when we have more information.
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