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Post by bargemast on Jan 23, 2019 16:53:50 GMT
I think its scrap. I wonder if Peter would be able to comment on the claim it is pre 1900. This could potentially mean a very interesting engine room, if it is original, with some extra scrap in it. Kempenaars of that time, and until after the war were mainly built as tow barges (Sleep-schepen) and were not motorised until after WW-2, this one may maybe even never been motorised, as there's nothing written about an engine in the ad. There's a lot of room on one of these as they are (were) 50m long and 6m60 wide and around 500 tons carrying capacity. In the ad they say that the boatmans cabin is at the bow, this is wrong, as that would have been the accomodation for the mate. The living quarters were in front of the kitchen, and the sleeping accomodation (if not motorised at a later date that changed the lay-out) was underneath the kitchen area. Often with an extra partition in the main living quarters too, to have a bedroom there with a window and some visibility. Peter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 16:58:41 GMT
I think its scrap. I wonder if Peter would be able to comment on the claim it is pre 1900. This could potentially mean a very interesting engine room, if it is original, with some extra scrap in it. Kempenaars of that time, and until after the war were mainly built as tow barges (Sleep-schepen) and were not motorised until after WW-2, this one may maybe even never been motorised, as there's nothing written about an engine in the ad. There's a lot of room on one of these as they are (were) 50m long and 6m60 wide and around 500 tons carrying capacity. In the ad they say that the boatmans cabin is at the bow, this is wrong, as that would have been the accomodation for the mate. The living quarters were in front of the kitchen, and the sleeping accomodation (if not motorised at a later date that changed the lay-out) was underneath the kitchen area. Often with an extra partition in the main living quarters too, to have a bedroom there with a window and some visibility. Peter. I have seen the boat. Not been on it but I had a chat with the previous owner who now owns a 38m peniche in barking creek and he told me Vriendschap does have an engine in it, it is a big one and does not work. Twin rudders looks properly motorised to me.
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Post by bargemast on Jan 23, 2019 16:58:57 GMT
Looking at the photo of this Kempenaar that Loddon just posted, I see that this barge had been motorised as you can see a tunnel over the prop, and some left over parts of two shafts at the stern that used to have twin rudders hanging on, that are missing now.
Peter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 17:03:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 17:10:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 17:17:41 GMT
Over to you again bargemast Is it a 1899 Rhineaak or a 1926 Kempenaar? I say the Kempenaar and possibly even newer. It just didn't look 120 years old to me but could be wrong ! Always happy to be wrong (fortunately) I sometimes wonder if the Dutch like to make up a bit of extra history to smooth the transaction when a British buyer turns up.
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Post by bargemast on Jan 23, 2019 17:37:04 GMT
Over to you again bargemast Is it a 1899 Rhineaak or a 1926 Kempenaar? I say the Kempenaar and possibly even newer. It just didn't look 120 years old to me but could be wrong ! Always happy to be wrong (fortunately) I sometimes wonder if the Dutch like to make up a bit of extra history to smooth the transaction when a British buyer turns up. If this barge is 7m45 wide as in the DBA story, then it's not a Kempenaar as their beam is 6m60. The age is very possible I've know several barges that were still trading that were built around 1880, don't know how many still are today though. Peter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 19:54:29 GMT
its wide but I don't believe its 7.45m wide. More like the 6.6 I reckon.
I can't see any pictures from Loddon.
Eta just looked back and there is a twitter page displayed. Did not display earlier. TLM Plashy so I guess it was the owner who got the boat moved not PLA then.
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Post by bargemast on Jan 24, 2019 10:09:30 GMT
its wide but I don't believe its 7.45m wide. More like the 6.6 I reckon.
I can't see any pictures from Loddon. Eta just looked back and there is a twitter page displayed. Did not display earlier. TLM Plashy so I guess it was the owner who got the boat moved not PLA then. There's nothing I can do to help you out here, who to believe ? The owner who tells us on his web-site that his barge is 7m45 wide, or you with the 6m60 ? When I clicked on the picture that Loddon had with his message, it blew it up enough for my tired eyes to see the stern better, and see the prop tunnel and rudder shafts. This barge being it at 7m45 or at 6m60 was built to be towed, and only motorised much later, probably well after WW-2. Peter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 10:35:37 GMT
yes it also says they found paperwork indicating it is a Hagenaar laid down in 1926.
Who to believe ? Previous owners who were trying to achieve a sale and -might- have exaggerated or the paperwork?
Do people actually measure their boats? I saw someone recently who insisted their boat was "39 feet long" when it was clearly about 35. Could it be that the seller just told them it was longer and they believed it ?
Or wider in this case. I also think an older boat may have more "cachet" and achieve a better price.
I know its all irrelevant anyway as you are not going to be buying it.
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Post by bargemast on Jan 24, 2019 10:45:00 GMT
yes it also says they found paperwork indicating it is a Hagenaar laid down in 1926. Who to believe ? Previous owners who were trying to achieve a sale and -might- have exaggerated or the paperwork? Do people actually measure their boats? I saw someone recently who insisted their boat was "39 feet long" when it was clearly about 35. Could it be that the seller just told them it was longer and they believed it ? Or wider in this case. I also think an older boat may have more "cachet" and achieve a better price. I know its all irrelevant anyway as you are not going to be buying it. Barges are officially registred and messured, which is a serious business, they supply them with a "MEETBRIEF" (letter of messurements) in which all of the barges details are written down, and also all the changes in name and owners over the years, and changes to the barge that have changes the barge details may be the reason for a new "MEETBRIEF" like when the engine was installed, the depth markings with how many tons of charge the barge go's down in the water etc. If the (professional) people that do these jobs write on the meetbief that the barge is 7m45 wide, then it won't be 7m44 of 7m46, they know their job and don't work by guessing. Peter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 10:55:49 GMT
Fair enough Peter that makes sense.
Google maps measuring tool, which is actually fairly accurate, suggests a beam of around 20ft which would be 6m.
In my experience measuring other vessels it usually comes in slightly lower than the actual size.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 11:02:50 GMT
It was located here last time the Google spy sat took pictures. Edited as was not quite accurate. Just north of the MoT centre in this link Jenkins Lane, Barking IG11 0AD goo.gl/maps/m3Ewf
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Post by bargemast on Jan 24, 2019 11:04:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 11:14:08 GMT
The church barge at West India Quay in canary wharf (outside the docklands museum) is a Kempenaar. They had to cut a section out of it as it was too long to get to its present position. I've been in the wheelhouse. Was very impressed with the forward visibility on the boat. Amazing. Not so impressed by the manic god bothering. I did not get into the engine room but it came from Holland under its own power St Peters Barge
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