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Post by on Dec 26, 2022 23:26:45 GMT
Another real risk is brand awareness.
If Tesla got a bad name for one reason or another and it started getting complicated financially nobody is going to want to buy the company. Everyone else is making their own electric cars with their own well known brands anyway.
There is a risk albeit quite small of existing Tesla vehicles literally being for the breakers. When they break them they will discover very few parts that can be reused or recycle.
Could be a hot potato job.
If the cost to dispose of non recyclable parts exceeded the cost of reusable parts it could be really interesting.
Up until recently they had very little competition so there was novelty value. Now everyone else is making good electric cars.
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Post by Aloysius on Dec 26, 2022 23:33:34 GMT
It's a fair point but MS software was never for sale, only to be licensed. However it only as the internet matured that it was possible to fully implement the policy. Windows 10 was a transparent attempt at MS grabbing a slice of the information cake which was hugely successful because they resorted to MS marketing strategy no.1: give it away. But even then it only worked if you already had a pre-existing licence for an earlier version of Windows. Now they don’t support windows 10 anymore. I have a laptop that still runs it. It still works but annoyingly wants to update every hour by restarting its self. Luckily I don’t have to use it much. It just has the software for altering the settings on the inverter and mppts on it. It is in fact still supported until 2025. I agree there was a time not so long go when the succession of yet another update became bothersome and intrusive, but this has slowed to a trickle of security updates. Also it works better if Edge is binned (fewer system resources in general use) but it takes a little bit of alteration to the registry to prevent it from re-installing. Nothing beyond the capabilities of the average bear. If that's all you use it for then it would be much better if you re-formatted the disk to use Ubuntu (Linux). If this laptop still functions in 2025 I'll do it for sure (after I have upgraded).
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Post by Aloysius on Dec 26, 2022 23:50:18 GMT
The briefest of searches shows several claimed methods, but since I don't own an iphone and have no interest in ever buying one (or any other Apple product) I couldn't say how successful any of them might be. So no, I don't know through personal experience. companies have got very good at protecting their software ip. It’s the same reason you don’t get many copies of computer games like you used to. So the idea an individual would be able to hack the code for something like a Tesla car is a bit Disney. It would take a team of software engineers quite a long time. The idea of people running cracked versions of Tesla cars whilst quite interesting is very fanciful. Computer games are an interesting one; for the most part it seems nobody is much interested in standalone games anymore, it has to be internet / community related, which requires a valid licence code to log on to a server, but the software itself is often freely available to download. Mostly useless as a single player affair though. Incidentally TB would be much better if it existed on WoW because then you could attack the posters you didn't like in a whole new way. 😜 Most older games are easily found if you like that sort of thing. I'll tell you how if you like. In order to hack Tesla software I imagine an important step would be to deny the system web connectivity. Not very Disney at all. I couldn't say how long it might take but to imagine it can't be done is ridiculous. Some very talented and rather obsessed folks do this sort of thing full-time just because they find it entertaining. If there comes a time when it becomes vital and thereby creating an aftermarket it will happen seemingly overnight.
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Post by Aloysius on Dec 26, 2022 23:57:57 GMT
When they break them they will discover very few parts that can be reused or recycle. Bullshit.
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Post by kris on Dec 27, 2022 6:07:21 GMT
companies have got very good at protecting their software ip. It’s the same reason you don’t get many copies of computer games like you used to. So the idea an individual would be able to hack the code for something like a Tesla car is a bit Disney. It would take a team of software engineers quite a long time. The idea of people running cracked versions of Tesla cars whilst quite interesting is very fanciful. Computer games are an interesting one; for the most part it seems nobody is much interested in standalone games anymore, it has to be internet / community related, which requires a valid licence code to log on to a server, but the software itself is often freely available to download. Mostly useless as a single player affair though. Incidentally TB would be much better if it existed on WoW because then you could attack the posters you didn't like in a whole new way. 😜 Most older games are easily found if you like that sort of thing. I'll tell you how if you like. In order to hack Tesla software I imagine an important step would be to deny the system web connectivity. Not very Disney at all. I couldn't say how long it might take but to imagine it can't be done is ridiculous. Some very talented and rather obsessed folks do this sort of thing full-time just because they find it entertaining. If there comes a time when it becomes vital and thereby creating an aftermarket it will happen seemingly overnight. when did I say it can’t be done.
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Post by Aloysius on Dec 27, 2022 7:40:53 GMT
Computer games are an interesting one; for the most part it seems nobody is much interested in standalone games anymore, it has to be internet / community related, which requires a valid licence code to log on to a server, but the software itself is often freely available to download. Mostly useless as a single player affair though. Incidentally TB would be much better if it existed on WoW because then you could attack the posters you didn't like in a whole new way. 😜 Most older games are easily found if you like that sort of thing. I'll tell you how if you like. In order to hack Tesla software I imagine an important step would be to deny the system web connectivity. Not very Disney at all. I couldn't say how long it might take but to imagine it can't be done is ridiculous. Some very talented and rather obsessed folks do this sort of thing full-time just because they find it entertaining. If there comes a time when it becomes vital and thereby creating an aftermarket it will happen seemingly overnight. when did I say it can’t be done. "...the idea an individual would be able to hack the code for something like a Tesla car is a bit Disney..."
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Post by Aloysius on Dec 27, 2022 7:45:22 GMT
Did a brief bit of tinternet research on the EV connectivity thing. Seems Andrew is labouring a little under the misconceptions of whatnot. The thing about OTA (over the air) updates and such is not so much getting rid of it but rather staying connected, which in most cases requires a subscription charge, but sometimes it comes with the car, for a while at least.
But in the USA, customers of EV vehicles (and some not EV but with similar bells and whistles) are losing connection fundamentally because the system uses 3G which over there has been phased out, or ‘sunsetted’, as the jargon would prefer. And while some manufactures provide an upgrade, it mostly costs the earth although sometimes (not often) it was free. In the case of Tesla the charge was 200 jibs, which is quite reasonable compared to others.
Also, ‘turning off’ a car is possible, although this is part of a care package in the event that the car is reported stolen. I suspect other manufactures do this too. There are no reports of cars being disabled in this way because the car is considered uncool by its creator. However Tesla was found to have disabled ‘supercharge’ (a premium fast charge system) on at least one Model S but later reinstated it after receiving bad publicity. Or was it that an extended-range feature mysteriously disappeared? Maybe it was that. Or both. However, given Apple’s recent scandal about deliberately slowing down older iphones to encourage new sales, it would seem Tesla and others have at the least the potential to do similar things but may have re-thought the policy.
Also, in America the situation regarding charging stations is even worse than here, where there are even more differing charging ‘standards’ and I’m sure I’ve read that Tesla stations, which are the most numerous, don’t allow any other make to plug in, and even if you don’t have OTA connectivity one assumes that sneaky changes to onboard software could be implemented at that time. There was a bit of shenanigans concerning repaired cars and custom cars using recycled parts a while ago, but Tesla eventually gave in.
This also leads me to suspect that the current aftermarket probably specialises in adaptors to allow access to other non-native charging points, although there was some noise about the issue here in the UK, and I’m sure I recall some gov edict was made.
Also I’ve read elsewhere that a fun sport for the light-fingered is to have the genuine cable away on their toes because the retail replacement cost is high, and while there are cheaper non-genuine alternatives, they aren’t as good. Same as a crapola iphone. So one has to spend on a theft prevention device as well.
The 3G issue will dawn in a while here in the UK as well, but once again all it will mean is that all the bells and whistles car owners no doubt found so terribly exciting will cease to work, leaving you with an ‘ordinary’ car. However I suspect that a workaround involving bluetooth and a newer handset will be an alternative to buying an upgraded branded module which, inevitably, will have a silly price tag. I also imagine there will be (and quite likely already is) plenty of aftermarket head-units to choose from. As for the Tesla autopilot thing, I’m fairly sure that Tesla have always maintained that it also requires an attentive human not under the influence of something, be it alcohol, narcotics or fatigue. I expect that a large part of OTA is about gathering data from existing users in addition to pouring cash into a pit of bottomless research. Having your customers do R&D for you is not new. The only slightly odd thing is that few other manufacturers seem to be ready to market something similar, but as Clarkson would maintain, watch the S-Type, if car-watching is of interest.
I would make a guess that the next thing to become standard equipment beforehand will be a proximity sensor linked to the brake and throttle system (already existent on some cars, not just Tesla).
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Post by kris on Dec 27, 2022 9:53:18 GMT
when did I say it can’t be done. "...the idea an individual would be able to hack the code for something like a Tesla car is a bit Disney..." what about the rest of my post? What you’ve quoted doesn’t even say what you claim.
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Post by on Dec 27, 2022 12:00:41 GMT
When they break them they will discover very few parts that can be reused or recycle. Bullshit. Have you seen how the cars are made? Obviously there is some hardware which can be reused but most of it is scrap. It's a throw-away car. Makes sense to do this. I think it is enormously sensible to have throw-away cars as long as everything is easily recycled. Warranty is 8 years 100k miles. Okay fair enough but if a drive unit goes after that it's not going to be cheap is it. These things do have a finite life. As does the battery, which is a load of cells glued together in a box. I don't mean early model S they were different but current 3 and Y models for the mass market are disposable products. I think you would find it quite difficult to extract much value from them IF manufacturer was no longer present. I suppose there would be fusuiasts running them so it would be a self sustaining marketplace. They are junk. My opinion.
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Post by on Dec 27, 2022 12:06:01 GMT
This search suggests just 4 years warranty but I can't believe that is true The motors are enclosed in housings with gearing. A drive unit. Once those gears start wearing out (which will happen) you get very expensive repairs. It won't be a meccano set. Lots of the parts will be modular and can only be sorted by replacing. This requires a source of spare parts. I suppose if the company fails then someone would probably buy all the spares that were available. Because of the complex and advanced nature of the parts used it seems likely that any pattern parts or parts being hoarded would be very costly.
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Post by on Dec 27, 2022 12:23:20 GMT
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Post by kris on Dec 27, 2022 13:57:42 GMT
Thanks that is an interesting article. It would seem Elon musk is a control freak. There’s no way I’d buy a Tesla, even if I was in the market for an electric car.
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Post by on Dec 27, 2022 15:47:32 GMT
He is basically a marketing genius. he knows his shit to be fair.
What really got me was the robotaxi bollocks. You tell people their cars are going to earn them money because they can drive themselves off to collect passengers, do a remote taxi run then come home.
This is really taking the piss too much. People did actually believe it.
I should put a disclaimer here which is that I believe that irresponsible and dishonest marketing is very damaging. Some people actually believe this shit.
Anyone promoting bullshit like this goes into the con man category as far as I am concerned.
Con man. Con being a shortened version of the word Confidence.
It is a scam.
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Post by kris on Dec 27, 2022 15:50:33 GMT
Let’s hope his rockets are better, for the sake of the people he’s going to send to Mars.
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Post by on Dec 27, 2022 15:55:32 GMT
Watch this and tell me it's not a con man.
Watch from 2:30 to see the con man at work. He is clever. Working on the principle that the average person doesn't know all that much but what they DO know they hold quite dear. You can really screw people by playing on their lack of knowledge but at the same time make them think they do know something.
A lot of people probably think that fully autonomous vehicles are "just around the corner". They may be but in reality it is going to take a lot more than a gimmicky car with cameras on it to make this happen.
Point being that this doesn't matter at all. People will buy into the idea that their car car be earning an income for them while not used.
He is a seriously clever bloke and hats off to him but it is a con. Nothing else happening here.
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