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Post by Murgatroyd on Apr 29, 2023 19:13:20 GMT
But then again, in attempting to remove the boat from the canal, CRT were not assuming the authority of the court but instead were using the statutory powers they have already. I can see the George Ward case resulting in CRT no longer seeking Court Orders and simply removing unlicensed boats in accordance with their statutory powers. In a way this does remove a level of protection for boaters who come on to the radar but if the Court action is futile then it makes more sense to by-pass it. The George Ward case will end up with the boat being removed, the only real issue is how much those of us who do license boats end up paying for it. Either that or CRT go all the way in this case and all others in the future by obtaining the writ of control (or whatever it's called) which will simply cost more dough to achieve the same thing.
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Post by kris on Apr 29, 2023 19:22:34 GMT
I can see the George Ward case resulting in CRT no longer seeking Court Orders and simply removing unlicensed boats in accordance with their statutory powers. In a way this does remove a level of protection for boaters who come on to the radar but if the Court action is futile then it makes more sense to by-pass it. The George Ward case will end up with the boat being removed, the only real issue is how much those of us who do license boats end up paying for it. Either that or CRT go all the way in this case and all others in the future by obtaining the writ of control (or whatever it's called) which will simply cost more dough to achieve the same thing. More likely that they don’t bother going to court at all.
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Post by The Cat Man on Apr 29, 2023 19:28:57 GMT
Can't see CRT going for no court action with regards known livaboards - reputational damage far too high.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 29, 2023 19:34:49 GMT
I can see the George Ward case resulting in CRT no longer seeking Court Orders and simply removing unlicensed boats in accordance with their statutory powers. In a way this does remove a level of protection for boaters who come on to the radar but if the Court action is futile then it makes more sense to by-pass it. The George Ward case will end up with the boat being removed, the only real issue is how much those of us who do license boats end up paying for it. Either that or CRT go all the way in this case and all others in the future by obtaining the writ of control (or whatever it's called) which will simply cost more dough to achieve the same thing. I can see this becoming a bigger issue in the future as the cost of licensing increases and with it non-compliance. At the same time CRT have ever less money to play with, I read that the funding allocated when CRT took over from BW was not inflation-linked and so is worth 40% less than it was at the outset.
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Post by Murgatroyd on Apr 29, 2023 19:48:23 GMT
Either that or CRT go all the way in this case and all others in the future by obtaining the writ of control (or whatever it's called) which will simply cost more dough to achieve the same thing. More likely that they don’t bother going to court at all. You mean like Stabby said a moment ago?
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Post by Murgatroyd on Apr 29, 2023 19:51:29 GMT
Can't see CRT going for no court action with regards known livaboards - reputational damage far too high. Also the likelihood of militant action in the future has just gone up several notches. I see it as unlikely that CRT will adopt a less rigorous approach approach.
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Post by The Cat Man on Apr 29, 2023 20:00:19 GMT
Can't see CRT going for no court action with regards known livaboards - reputational damage far too high. Also the likelihood of militant action in the future has just gone up several notches. I see it as unlikely that CRT will adopt a less rigorous approach approach. My suspicion (and hope) is that this fairly public incident will clarify the legal aspects and make 'militant action' that bit more harder. But until things conclude I await to see......
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Post by Murgatroyd on Apr 29, 2023 20:04:51 GMT
Also the likelihood of militant action in the future has just gone up several notches. I see it as unlikely that CRT will adopt a less rigorous approach approach. My suspicion (and hope) is that this fairly public incident will clarify the legal aspects and make 'militant action' that bit more harder. But until things conclude I await to see...... I suspect the militancy would be on the part of boaters. But there is also the possibility that if this shit gets into the mainstream then it might receive scrutiny at the level Dunk has been hoping for.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 29, 2023 20:08:21 GMT
Can't see CRT going for no court action with regards known livaboards - reputational damage far too high. Also the likelihood of militant action in the future has just gone up several notches. I see it as unlikely that CRT will adopt a less rigorous approach approach. The bottom line is that if you keep a boat on the waterways, you have to comply with certain requirements, such as having a licence, BSS certificate, insurance etc. The overwhelming majority of boaters understand this, and empathy towards those who don't is fairly limited. Of course, there will always be more empathy towards fairly benign people like George Ward and the bloke who owned Planet than people like Tony Dunkley who come across as ignorant, arrogant, boorish and condescending but still the overwhelming majority of boaters who are compliant would support action being taken against those who aren't.
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Post by kris on Apr 29, 2023 20:08:26 GMT
More likely that they don’t bother going to court at all. You mean like Stabby said a moment ago? You don’t expect me to read this stuff do you?
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Post by Murgatroyd on Apr 29, 2023 20:16:31 GMT
Also the likelihood of militant action in the future has just gone up several notches. I see it as unlikely that CRT will adopt a less rigorous approach approach. The bottom line is that if you keep a boat on the waterways, you have to comply with certain requirements, such as having a licence, BSS certificate, insurance etc. The overwhelming majority of boaters understand this, and empathy towards those who don't is fairly limited. Of course, there will always be more empathy towards fairly benign people like George Ward and the bloke who owned Planet than people like Tony Dunkley who come across as ignorant, arrogant, boorish and condescending but still the overwhelming majority of boaters who are compliant would support action being taken against those who aren't. If George stays where he is then I agree the outcome is certain. But if enough noise is made it can only go badly for CRT, which I see as a good thing.
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Post by The Cat Man on Apr 29, 2023 20:16:34 GMT
My suspicion (and hope) is that this fairly public incident will clarify the legal aspects and make 'militant action' that bit more harder. But until things conclude I await to see...... I suspect the militancy would be on the part of boaters. But there is also the possibility that if this shit gets into the mainstream then it might receive scrutiny at the level Dunk has been hoping for. I think many people are overreacting to the issue. Things will get sorted legally and even if CRT are proved to have not followed the exact processess in the past, I can't see it making more than a couple of column inches in Private Eye.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Apr 29, 2023 20:23:53 GMT
The bottom line is that if you keep a boat on the waterways, you have to comply with certain requirements, such as having a licence, BSS certificate, insurance etc. The overwhelming majority of boaters understand this, and empathy towards those who don't is fairly limited. Of course, there will always be more empathy towards fairly benign people like George Ward and the bloke who owned Planet than people like Tony Dunkley who come across as ignorant, arrogant, boorish and condescending but still the overwhelming majority of boaters who are compliant would support action being taken against those who aren't. If George stays where he is then I agree the outcome is certain. But if enough noise is made it can only go badly for CRT, which I see as a good thing. But would you really want enforcement to be done by an organisation with teeth, such as DVSA or TV Licensing? It's taken CRT 12 years to get to this stage and you really have to be a serious piss-taker to drag them this far.
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Post by Murgatroyd on Apr 29, 2023 21:16:31 GMT
If George stays where he is then I agree the outcome is certain. But if enough noise is made it can only go badly for CRT, which I see as a good thing. But would you really want enforcement to be done by an organisation with teeth, such as DVSA or TV Licensing? It's taken CRT 12 years to get to this stage and you really have to be a serious piss-taker to drag them this far. Unfortunately conflict with authority inevitably brings more rules, and restrictions (unless you have a revolution which in these here parts is unlikely). Also TV Licencing are a bunch of pussies.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Apr 30, 2023 9:26:19 GMT
Could the fact the police did not intervene due to the fact there was no court appointed bailiffs present? That would be a fairly easy one to sort by CRT. No, . . the sole reason for the Police refusing to join in with assisting the C&RT(Ltd) in doing its dirty work at Bradford-on-Avon on 19 April last, was that the Police had their attention drawn to the fact that, . . besides being a civil matter, and therefore not of any concern to the Police, . . the Court Order did NOT authorise, instruct, or entitle the C&RT(Ltd) to evict the undisputed rightful owner from his boat, or to then seize and transport the said boat, absent the owner's consent but at his expense, to an undisclosed destination for subsequent sale or disposal after an unspecified period of storage, again, all at the owners expense. This was the first time ever that the C&RT(Ltd) had been faced with a refusal of this sort, . . because on all previous occasions when the C&RT(Ltd) had lied to the Police over the scope and the authority of one of its much vaunted, and much misrepresented 'Court Orders', the Police officers from various Forces who had attended were all taken in and fooled by the lies that C&RT(Ltd) fed to them, . . and so were quite happy to actively assist the C&RT(Ltd) representatives present in fraudulently seizing, and ultimately stealing, whatever boat happened to be named on the Court Orders. None of the above is speculation - as, no doubt, a number of Thunderboat's moronic trolls will try to dismiss it as being. It is verifiable fact - every word of it, . . and I do have copies of the written advisory information that was forwarded and shown to C&RT(Ltd)'s National Customer/Licence Support Manager (sic) Matthew Aymes, Solicitor-Advocate Lucy Barry, and the Wiltshire Police Sergeant in attendance and in charge on the day.
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