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Post by dogless on Jul 5, 2023 21:15:05 GMT
But that argument is equally applied to you Telemachus You have a licence to cruise the system for 12 months but choose not to (personal circumstances) so have to take a mooring. Rog ETA metanoia beat me to it ... and more succinctly š But I am not basing my point on my own circumstances. I am basing on what I see around our marina, what I hear on the much larger forum CWDF and what I know about human nature. Personally I donāt think it is legally feasible to charge differently for CC Vs HM without a change in the law. But in my opinion, and itās only my opinion, a survey of all boaters would probably support the idea, just as they supported charging wide beams more. Maybe you should get out more then, rather than gathering in little 'moorer groups' discussing how evil cc'ers are š Obviously moorers would vote for extra costs for anybody but them ... I was suggesting what I consider fair and equitable. We all pay for a 12 month licence which is fair and equitable. Those that can cruise, cruise ... those that can't have to pay for a mooring. Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 5, 2023 21:16:29 GMT
The basis of my argument is that the direct costs to CRT in terms of rubbish disposal, drinking water supply and disposal of shit is on average a lot more for CCers than for HMers. The other increased cost at a group level is that āenforcementā is mostly about CCers and not about HMers. The enforcement department probably employs a significant % of staff. All those towpath walkers and office dwellers sending snotogramsā¦ Some valid points there. However, the costs for such services will continue to rise, and at some point, those heading out of the marinas will also be targeted. Setting out to support the CRT initiatives because it will stop them from hitting you is probably frivolous really. I would suggest an alternative, boat owners join forces to support a better management team with initiatives in funding, spending and support. CRT have received well over 2 billion quid since 2012, and yet last year, they couldnāt even organise vegetation management. CRT breeds within itself, and consequently uses up the majority of funding. Unfortunately I have to mostly agree. The only thing is the bit āboat owners join forces to support a better management team with initiatives in funding, spending and support.ā I just can never see that happening. Put 5 boat owners in a room together and you will get 6 different viewpoints. Same with any other group and topic. Boat owners are not a homogeneous lot. Iām not sure what the answer is, but I certainly agree that CRT have been fairly incompetent and self-serving from the outset. From the top, that is. At ground level there are still some good people in CRT.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 5, 2023 21:24:15 GMT
Jeff has just mentioned a good point which is that CRT levy a 10% charge on marinasā mooring income (well, for the majority of marinas that are subject to the access agreement). So currently HMers pay around 20% more to CRT than CCers (depending on the mooring cost). That doesnāt seem fair.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 5, 2023 21:25:27 GMT
But I am not basing my point on my own circumstances. I am basing on what I see around our marina, what I hear on the much larger forum CWDF and what I know about human nature. Personally I donāt think it is legally feasible to charge differently for CC Vs HM without a change in the law. But in my opinion, and itās only my opinion, a survey of all boaters would probably support the idea, just as they supported charging wide beams more. Maybe you should get out more then, rather than gathering in little 'moorer groups' discussing how evil cc'ers are š Obviously moorers would vote for extra costs for anybody but them ... I was suggesting what I consider fair and equitable. We all pay for a 12 month licence which is fair and equitable. Those that can cruise, cruise ... those that can't have to pay for a mooring. Rog Pretty sure that marina dwellers still considerably outnumber CCers. Itās a shame you have to be dismissive in your argument by the inclusion of adjectives like ālittleā, when in fact this is probably the majority view.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 21:27:50 GMT
Some valid points there. However, the costs for such services will continue to rise, and at some point, those heading out of the marinas will also be targeted. Setting out to support the CRT initiatives because it will stop them from hitting you is probably frivolous really. I would suggest an alternative, boat owners join forces to support a better management team with initiatives in funding, spending and support. CRT have received well over 2 billion quid since 2012, and yet last year, they couldnāt even organise vegetation management. CRT breeds within itself, and consequently uses up the majority of funding. I just can never see that happening. Put 5 boat owners in a room together and you will get 6 different viewpoints. Same with any other group and topic. Boat owners are not a homogeneous lot. Time for some to do a bit of soul searching then, and decide where they need to be at. Is the future of the waterways in their present form paramount, or are they just for the here and now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 21:29:28 GMT
Jeff has just mentioned a good point which is that CRT levy a 10% charge on marinasā mooring income (well, for the majority of marinas that are subject to the access agreement). So currently HMers pay around 20% more to CRT than CCers (depending on the mooring cost). That doesnāt seem fair. No, itās not fair, but that is down to the Marina owners, not ccers.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 5, 2023 21:31:11 GMT
Jeff has just mentioned a good point which is that CRT levy a 10% charge on marinasā mooring income (well, for the majority of marinas that are subject to the access agreement). So currently HMers pay around 20% more to CRT than CCers (depending on the mooring cost). That doesnāt seem fair. No, itās not fair, but that is down to the Marina owners, not ccers. I donāt think the marina owners have a choice. It is down to CRT seeing a cash cow in marinas and exploiting it (although I think it was BW who set that up).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 21:40:50 GMT
No, itās not fair, but that is down to the Marina owners, not ccers. I donāt think the marina owners have a choice. It is down to CRT seeing a cash cow in marinas and exploiting it (although I think it was BW who set that up). It was Simon Salem who set it up, and the marinas who decided they would just suck up and dump it on their customers. As you probably remember, one Marina stood up and argued, but got no support, with even the usual idiots on Cwdf setting out to ridicule the marinas stance. (Talk about some folk shooting themselves in the foot) š
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 5, 2023 21:40:52 GMT
Most boaters without a home mooring cover far less of the network than I do, the usual complaint seems to be that they don't move enough. Your argument has no basis beyond showcasing the bitterness in your soul, and your hatred towards anyone who lives their life differently to you. The basis of my argument is that the direct costs to CRT in terms of rubbish disposal, drinking water supply and disposal of shit is on average a lot more for CCers than for HMers. The other increased cost at a group level is that āenforcementā is mostly about CCers and not about HMers. The enforcement department probably employs a significant % of staff. All those towpath walkers and office dwellers sending snotogramsā¦ So what? As an Old Age Pensioner you have a free bus pass, yet it costs just as much for the bus company to transport you as it does me, probably more so given the more frequent need to clean urine off of the seating. But do you see me whinging that you shouldn't get free bus travel?
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 5, 2023 21:42:58 GMT
The basis of my argument is that the direct costs to CRT in terms of rubbish disposal, drinking water supply and disposal of shit is on average a lot more for CCers than for HMers. The other increased cost at a group level is that āenforcementā is mostly about CCers and not about HMers. The enforcement department probably employs a significant % of staff. All those towpath walkers and office dwellers sending snotogramsā¦ So what? As an Old Age Pensioner you have a free bus pass, yet it costs just as much for the bus company to transport you as it does me, probably more so given the more frequent need to clean urine off of the seating. But do you see me whinging that you shouldn't get free bus travel? I donāt get free bus travel in England. I do get free bus travel in Scotland but then we pay more tax. And I donāt travel by bus.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 21:46:34 GMT
So what? As an Old Age Pensioner you have a free bus pass, yet it costs just as much for the bus company to transport you as it does me, probably more so given the more frequent need to clean urine off of the seating. But do you see me whinging that you shouldn't get free bus travel? I do get free bus travel in Scotland. ābut then we pay more tax.ā Yeah well, Nichola wanted a top of the range camper van. Someone had to pay.
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Post by Trina on Jul 5, 2023 21:52:45 GMT
I have never been outraged or offended at the thought of paying more to cruise on my boat 365 days of the year while those poor souls who pay marina fees only escape for a few weeks. Errr,I pay marina fees but spend more than a few weeks escaping.It'll be about 20+ weeks out & about by the end of the year.
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Post by dogless on Jul 5, 2023 21:55:01 GMT
Maybe you should get out more then, rather than gathering in little 'moorer groups' discussing how evil cc'ers are š Obviously moorers would vote for extra costs for anybody but them ... I was suggesting what I consider fair and equitable. We all pay for a 12 month licence which is fair and equitable. Those that can cruise, cruise ... those that can't have to pay for a mooring. Rog Pretty sure that marina dwellers still considerably outnumber CCers. Itās a shame you have to be dismissive in your argument by the inclusion of adjectives like ālittleā, when in fact this is probably the majority view. My point was that what is fair will always leave someone complaining ... always good to try and view issues from all sides, not just from self interest. Rog
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Post by Aloysius on Jul 5, 2023 22:37:24 GMT
It's been a while, I freely admit; but my experience was that if you wanted to empty the loo and fill the water tank at most private enterprises then it involved money. Not so these days?
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Post by Jim on Jul 6, 2023 7:09:38 GMT
The basis of my argument is that the direct costs to CRT in terms of rubbish disposal, drinking water supply and disposal of shit is on average a lot more for CCers than for HMers. The other increased cost at a group level is that āenforcementā is mostly about CCers and not about HMers. The enforcement department probably employs a significant % of staff. All those towpath walkers and office dwellers sending snotogramsā¦ So what? As an Old Age Pensioner you have a free bus pass, yet it costs just as much for the bus company to transport you as it does me, probably more so given the more frequent need to clean urine off of the seating. But do you see me whinging that you shouldn't get free bus travel? Theres no avoiding the qualifying for a bus pass, or the accompanying dribble. Well there is, just clock off early.
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