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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 19:36:43 GMT
Na, your first two paragraphs are not really helpful. Both your conclusions are wrong, and appear to be nothing more than a bystander’s view. CRT suggested in 2013 that reducing the number of facilities was one way to reduce the number of new liveaboards invading the canals and London was the first place to see facilities removed. As to the intent of the 95 act, many of the people who were fighting BW at the time were in fact livaboards. Their argument was based around them living on boats, and was duly accepted. Living on boats is not a new trend, it has been happening since the late 60s early 70s. As I recall it, it was Nigel Moore who went into great detail about the parliamentary negotiations surrounding the 95 act’s amendments to allow for not always requiring a home mooring. The arguments were around the proposal that people who wanted to explore the whole system didn’t have any use for a home mooring. Well that is what Nigel said, anyway. By ‘95 there were some live-aboards, this had crept up from a base of virtually zero when I started canal boating in the mid 60s. By mid 70s there was still a miniscule number, I never noticed them. But between 95 and now there has been a probably 10 fold or more increase in liveaboards CCers, all using the “bona fide for navigation” excuse for not having a home mooring, despite not being much interested in navigating the system. Of course I realise you came to boating much later, but trust me living on a boat in the 60s and 70s was limited to a very few genuine “water gypsies” and you could go for 10s of miles without seeing one. Perhaps you were blinkered and was not a member of Cwdf at that time.
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Post by Aloysius on Jul 6, 2023 19:57:39 GMT
Well it is true that birds of a feather flock together.
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Post by on Jul 6, 2023 20:00:07 GMT
This is actually not true. Birds of a certain type will flock together but just having feathers does not cause this.
Have you ever seen a flock of birds consisting of wrens and chaffinches?
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Post by on Jul 6, 2023 20:01:19 GMT
In a number of different ways this expression emulates the often presented lie that 'the wheels on the bus go round and round all day long'.
Both of these are false.
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Post by fi on Jul 6, 2023 20:06:25 GMT
You have misinterpreted 'birds of a feather' - too much reading TDs posts.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 6, 2023 20:13:23 GMT
As I recall it, it was Nigel Moore who went into great detail about the parliamentary negotiations surrounding the 95 act’s amendments to allow for not always requiring a home mooring. The arguments were around the proposal that people who wanted to explore the whole system didn’t have any use for a home mooring. Well that is what Nigel said, anyway. By ‘95 there were some live-aboards, this had crept up from a base of virtually zero when I started canal boating in the mid 60s. By mid 70s there was still a miniscule number, I never noticed them. But between 95 and now there has been a probably 10 fold or more increase in liveaboards CCers, all using the “bona fide for navigation” excuse for not having a home mooring, despite not being much interested in navigating the system. Of course I realise you came to boating much later, but trust me living on a boat in the 60s and 70s was limited to a very few genuine “water gypsies” and you could go for 10s of miles without seeing one. Perhaps you were blinkered and was not a member of Cwdf at that time. I rather suspect CWDF didn’t exist the 60s and 70s. 1968 Chris and I went on a half-term break from Lapworth up into the BCN. No liveaboards (but to be fair, there still aren’t many around the BCN). 1970 Holiday trip from Wolverhampton to Llangollen and back, no liveaboards to notice. 1971 Trevor to Whaley Bridge, no liveaboards to notice. 1973 from Warwickshire we did the L&L and back down (up) the Trent. Can’t remember any liveaboards. Also in 1973 from Warwickshire to Ely (Gt Ouse) for IWA rally (and back obvs). Can’t remember any liveaboards. I realise you had no concept of canal boating in those days and so you will have to take my word for it (or disagree out of ignorance). I think I stopped canal boating around 1975 when I went to Uni, and didn’t restart until 1990 or so. Probably 1995 was the first time I had the “SLOW DOWN” from liveaboards who didn’t know how to tie their boats up, and since then the proliferation of people with boats who don’t like boating but just want accommodation, has increased massively. This last year or so with the financial crisis there seems to be a massive spike in old knackered cruisers with no ID and probably thus no licence, often left for long periods on time-restricted moorings. You can’t park a knackered old camper van on the roadside or in a park and live there making the place look a mess, why can you do it on the canals?
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Post by Aloysius on Jul 6, 2023 20:13:39 GMT
You're right. This avenue of humour is as dead as a dodo.
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Post by on Jul 6, 2023 20:21:25 GMT
Perhaps you were blinkered and was not a member of Cwdf at that time. I rather suspect CWDF didn’t exist the 60s and 70s. 1968 Chris and I went on a half-term break from Lapworth up into the BCN. No liveaboards (but to be fair, there still aren’t many around the BCN). 1970 Holiday trip from Wolverhampton to Llangollen and back, no liveaboards to notice. 1971 Trevor to Whaley Bridge, no liveaboards to notice. 1973 from Warwickshire we did the L&L and back down (up) the Trent. Can’t remember any liveaboards. Also in 1973 from Warwickshire to Ely (Gt Ouse) for IWA rally (and back obvs). Can’t remember any liveaboards. I realise you had no concept of canal boating in those days and so you will have to take my word for it (or disagree out of ignorance). I think I stopped canal boating around 1975 when I went to Uni, and didn’t restart until 1990 or so. Probably 1995 was the first time I had the “SLOW DOWN” from liveaboards who didn’t know how to tie their boats up, and since then the proliferation of people with boats who don’t like boating but just want accommodation, has increased massively. This last year or so with the financial crisis there seems to be a massive spike in old knackered cruisers with no ID and probably thus no licence, often left for long periods on time-restricted moorings. You can’t park a knackered old camper van on the roadside or in a park and live there making the place look a mess, why can you do it on the canals? To answer question at the end. Because there has been no legislation since 1995. I seem to recall NigelMoore (RIP) mentioning that the CRT are specifically not allowed to apply for legislation for some reason. Can't remember why and it might not be an accurate memory as I have issues but it is about time things were tidied up. Slums are developing and problems will arise.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 20:27:35 GMT
Perhaps you were blinkered and was not a member of Cwdf at that time. I rather suspect CWDF didn’t exist the 60s and 70s. 1968 Chris and I went on a half-term break from Lapworth up into the BCN. No liveaboards (but to be fair, there still aren’t many around the BCN). 1970 Holiday trip from Wolverhampton to Llangollen and back, no liveaboards to notice. 1971 Trevor to Whaley Bridge, no liveaboards to notice. 1973 from Warwickshire we did the L&L and back down (up) the Trent. Can’t remember any liveaboards. Also in 1973 from Warwickshire to Ely (Gt Ouse) for IWA rally (and back obvs). Can’t remember any liveaboards. I realise you had no concept of canal boating in those days and so you will have to take my word for it (or disagree out of ignorance). I think I stopped canal boating around 1975 when I went to Uni, and didn’t restart until 1990 or so. Probably 1995 was the first time I had the “SLOW DOWN” from liveaboards who didn’t know how to tie their boats up, and since then the proliferation of people with boats who don’t like boating but just want accommodation, has increased massively. This last year or so with the financial crisis there seems to be a massive spike in old knackered cruisers with no ID and probably thus no licence, often left for long periods on time-restricted moorings. You can’t park a knackered old camper van on the roadside or in a park and live there making the place look a mess, why can you do it on the canals? I rely on having been passed knowledge by people who were actually involved with the 95 act, and you are factually wrong. I know you are trying to hold your head up after making a few assumptions, or at best a rough guess, but you’re not doing yourself any favours. Nigel Moore never mentioned that the 95 act didn’t include live aboards, you just made that up in the hope that using his name would give you an advantage. Bummer, didn’t work. That’s several times on this thread that you have come up with nonsense that has no background whatsoever. I guess it’s whatever floats your boat at the end of the day.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 20:35:23 GMT
I rather suspect CWDF didn’t exist the 60s and 70s. 1968 Chris and I went on a half-term break from Lapworth up into the BCN. No liveaboards (but to be fair, there still aren’t many around the BCN). 1970 Holiday trip from Wolverhampton to Llangollen and back, no liveaboards to notice. 1971 Trevor to Whaley Bridge, no liveaboards to notice. 1973 from Warwickshire we did the L&L and back down (up) the Trent. Can’t remember any liveaboards. Also in 1973 from Warwickshire to Ely (Gt Ouse) for IWA rally (and back obvs). Can’t remember any liveaboards. I realise you had no concept of canal boating in those days and so you will have to take my word for it (or disagree out of ignorance). I think I stopped canal boating around 1975 when I went to Uni, and didn’t restart until 1990 or so. Probably 1995 was the first time I had the “SLOW DOWN” from liveaboards who didn’t know how to tie their boats up, and since then the proliferation of people with boats who don’t like boating but just want accommodation, has increased massively. This last year or so with the financial crisis there seems to be a massive spike in old knackered cruisers with no ID and probably thus no licence, often left for long periods on time-restricted moorings. You can’t park a knackered old camper van on the roadside or in a park and live there making the place look a mess, why can you do it on the canals? To answer question at the end. Because there has been no legislation since 1995. I seem to recall NigelMoore (RIP) mentioning that the CRT are specifically not allowed to apply for legislation for some reason. It was nothing to do with being allowed, it was the fact that parliamentary time would not be allocated, where as these days, CRT just don’t have the money, or clout to acquire any new legislation. They can only continue through the courts to convince judges that their interpretations should be considered. Of course this is working for them, as has been proven over the past few years. Others much like yourself just get shoved off easily with little or no fuss.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 6, 2023 20:36:57 GMT
I rather suspect CWDF didn’t exist the 60s and 70s. 1968 Chris and I went on a half-term break from Lapworth up into the BCN. No liveaboards (but to be fair, there still aren’t many around the BCN). 1970 Holiday trip from Wolverhampton to Llangollen and back, no liveaboards to notice. 1971 Trevor to Whaley Bridge, no liveaboards to notice. 1973 from Warwickshire we did the L&L and back down (up) the Trent. Can’t remember any liveaboards. Also in 1973 from Warwickshire to Ely (Gt Ouse) for IWA rally (and back obvs). Can’t remember any liveaboards. I realise you had no concept of canal boating in those days and so you will have to take my word for it (or disagree out of ignorance). I think I stopped canal boating around 1975 when I went to Uni, and didn’t restart until 1990 or so. Probably 1995 was the first time I had the “SLOW DOWN” from liveaboards who didn’t know how to tie their boats up, and since then the proliferation of people with boats who don’t like boating but just want accommodation, has increased massively. This last year or so with the financial crisis there seems to be a massive spike in old knackered cruisers with no ID and probably thus no licence, often left for long periods on time-restricted moorings. You can’t park a knackered old camper van on the roadside or in a park and live there making the place look a mess, why can you do it on the canals? I rely on having been passed knowledge by people who were actually involved with the 95 act, and you are factually wrong. I know you are trying to hold your head up after making a few assumptions, or at best a rough guess, but you’re not doing yourself any favours. Nigel Moore never mentioned that the 95 act didn’t include live aboards, you just made that up in the hope that using his name would give you an advantage. Bummer, didn’t work. That’s several times on this thread that you have come up with nonsense that has no background whatsoever. I guess it’s whatever floats your boat at the end of the day. It seems unlikely that you have read the exact same input from nigel that I have. And to be honest, I am not totally sure it was nigel who recounted this. My recollection is that the story from <whoever> was that BW wanted the law to require all boats to have a HM, but there were objections / amendments on the basis that some people wanted to spend a few years exploring the system and thus a home mooring was not appropriate. If you disagree with this, rather than just stating that you disagree, why not give your version of why the Act has the provision for CCing?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 20:39:25 GMT
I rely on having been passed knowledge by people who were actually involved with the 95 act, and you are factually wrong. I know you are trying to hold your head up after making a few assumptions, or at best a rough guess, but you’re not doing yourself any favours. Nigel Moore never mentioned that the 95 act didn’t include live aboards, you just made that up in the hope that using his name would give you an advantage. Bummer, didn’t work. That’s several times on this thread that you have come up with nonsense that has no background whatsoever. I guess it’s whatever floats your boat at the end of the day. It seems unlikely that you have read the exact same input from nigel that I have. And to be honest, I am not totally sure it was nigel who recounted this. My recollection is that the story from <whoever> was that BW wanted the law to require all boats to have a HM, but there were objections / amendments on the basis that some people wanted to spend a few years exploring the system and thus a home mooring was not appropriate. If you disagree with this, rather than just stating that you disagree, why not give your version of why the Act has the provision for CCing? Lol, you’re all over the place.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 6, 2023 20:41:19 GMT
It seems unlikely that you have read the exact same input from nigel that I have. And to be honest, I am not totally sure it was nigel who recounted this. My recollection is that the story from <whoever> was that BW wanted the law to require all boats to have a HM, but there were objections / amendments on the basis that some people wanted to spend a few years exploring the system and thus a home mooring was not appropriate. If you disagree with this, rather than just stating that you disagree, why not give your version of why the Act has the provision for CCing? Lol, you’re all over the place. So, it seems you don’t want to give your version of why the act has the CCing provision. Pretty obvious why.
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Post by on Jul 6, 2023 20:45:02 GMT
Others much like yourself just get shoved off easily with little or no fuss. Get shoved off what?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 20:46:06 GMT
Lol, you’re all over the place. So, it seems you don’t want to give your version of why the act has the CCing provision. Pretty obvious why. Actually I just don’t fancy spending the next hour or two arguing the toss with your constantly moving goal posts. I’ve said what I needed to.
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