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Post by Mr Stabby on Mar 16, 2024 19:08:47 GMT
They've never made any money out of me. Nor me , nor any other boat owner on here. You have to choose to join the dance 😁 Rog "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" as they say.
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Post by kris on Mar 16, 2024 21:26:18 GMT
I don’t think your understanding the process. It’s going from no enforcement to being taken to court as the first step. As we all know there is no clarity in the legislation as to how far to cruise. So yes it is completely possible that someone could be happily unaware and then land in court with no warning or guidance given as what constitutes lawful behaviour. I don't think you're understanding that a boat owner choosing not to move his/her boat must expect to attract attention, unless in regular contact with C&RT. Someone cruising several hundred miles a year shouldn't expect attention, provided the boat is licensed, insured and has a BSSC. So I'm suggesting it's entirely impossible to be surprised by C&RT attention. Rog Your making the assumption that all people who come under enforcement don’t move.
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Post by dogless on Mar 16, 2024 21:56:22 GMT
If you're strictly compliant, why would you be under enforcement ... indeed how could you be under enforcement ?
Rog
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Post by kris on Mar 16, 2024 22:04:14 GMT
If you're strictly compliant, why would you be under enforcement ... indeed how could you be under enforcement ? Rog You keep saying people who don’t move. There are plenty of people who move who come under enforcement.
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Post by dogless on Mar 16, 2024 22:10:09 GMT
I'm asking why anyone would come under enforcement if they're compliant ?
If they're not compliant, enforcement shouldn't come as a surprise should it ?
Rog
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Post by kris on Mar 16, 2024 22:13:43 GMT
How do you know if your not compliant?
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Post by dogless on Mar 16, 2024 22:21:40 GMT
I'll try once more.
I have a licence, BSSC, insurance and I comply with signed mooring restrictions and travel the system without over staying in any given location.
I do several hundred miles a year and this is my twentieth year of doing so.
I know I comply with the minimal requirements C&RT imposes.
So you now explain how you're accidentally going to come under enforcement.
Rog
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Post by kris on Mar 16, 2024 22:32:13 GMT
That’s very good rog do you want a medal? I didn’t realise we where talking about you. I thought we where talking about a hypothetical boater. So I’ve just bought a boat because I’ve been watching YouTube videos and it looks like fun. I pay for a licence, insurance and the boat has a saftety cert. I start moving around the system. I know I’m supposed to move a certain distance but I don’t know how far. Ve read the legislation but to be honest it’s as clear as mud. Crt can’t tell me how far I’ve asked and everyboater tells you different if you ask them. It’s worse if I look on Internet forums I get the ravings of mad people. So let me ask you how do I know if I’m compliant? Ps All the boats you see with no name, no number and no licence. Don’t come under enforcement because it’s too difficult for crt to find the owners.
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Post by dogless on Mar 16, 2024 22:41:00 GMT
Make your mind up ... you asked how I know if I'm compliant and I told you.
I asked how you're accidentally going to come under enforcement?
If you're only moving a minimal amount a year, or staying in one area, you shouldn't be surprised if enforcement flags you up.
Are you really suggesting a new boater won't know what's generally required and what's likely to cause issues?
Rog
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Post by Mr Stabby on Mar 16, 2024 22:54:57 GMT
That’s very good rog do you want a medal? I didn’t realise we where talking about you. I thought we where talking about a hypothetical boater. So I’ve just bought a boat because I’ve been watching YouTube videos and it looks like fun. I pay for a licence, insurance and the boat has a saftety cert. I start moving around the system. I know I’m supposed to move a certain distance but I don’t know how far. Ve read the legislation but to be honest it’s as clear as mud. Crt can’t tell me how far I’ve asked and everyboater tells you different if you ask them. It’s worse if I look on Internet forums I get the ravings of mad people. So let me ask you how do I know if I’m compliant? Ps All the boats you see with no name, no number and no licence. Don’t come under enforcement because it’s too difficult for crt to find the owners. Basically I think CRT are going after people who live on boats in London because they have jobs there and can't afford to rent a flat. They are not "boaters" in the sense that they enjoy boating, and their main aim is to stay as close to a given point as possible for as long as possible. I'm not condemning their behaviour, we have a terrible housing shortage in the UK and everybody needs to live somewhere, but at the same time CRT does need to represent boaters who wish to travel through London and need somewhere to moor overnight.
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Post by brummieboy on Mar 16, 2024 23:38:55 GMT
The only reported cases of enforcement seem to come in London, Birmingham, the K&A and so forth. There are people who look on U Tube and the like and find how best to work the system to their advantage. This is a common trait in other areas apart from boats, such as motor homes where councils and the police act more quickly than CaRT. There are many seaside resorts that 'hound' excess parking, and the police will soon clamp offenders. There are many places other than London where people stretch the rules, such as places where prescriptions 'take longer' than the 2,5 or 14 days, and peoplw work hard to find them. Persistent offenders soon flag up, and if CaRT don't have the staff or 'nous' to police it, then it will be contracted out like Thames Moorings, or cuckoos on permanent CaRT moorings. It is good to be able to spend a couple of days in Kingston or Hampton Court, and where Local Authorities get their act together, you pay, clear out or get fines. Where there is no 'free' time, like Henley or Windsor, you often get a visit within 10 mins of mooring. If this were to happen on canals, then pleasure cruisers or compliant continuous cruisers would have a less stressful time. Either way, enforcement will achieve these aims, increase revenue and keep piss takers out of the way.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Mar 17, 2024 6:38:39 GMT
The sinister side of it all is that the CRT -will- bring in contractors for enforcement. This will happen and change the status of itinerant living on canals. . . . . . . . . CRT need a 'straight to prosecution' framework to hand over. Simple as that, really. To create such a framework, as you call it, . . C&RT would first have to begin 'prosecuting' owners of unlicensed craft. To date, C&RT have NEVER brought one single prosecution against the owner, hirer, occupier, or user of an unlicensed vessel under the General Canal Byelaws 1976, or under the Statutory powers it has to take action with regard to unlicensed craft under Section 5 of the BW Act 1983, or Sections 5 & 7 of the BW Act 1971.
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Post by dogless on Mar 17, 2024 8:33:45 GMT
Remove the boat solves the problem, once and for all doesn't it ?
Rog
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Post by on Mar 17, 2024 8:43:42 GMT
If the CRT encounter a persistently problematic individual they may wish to get them off their property.
First step is removing the Boat. The Act specifically uses the word 'remove' and most people are familiar with the duck and the bucket.
If the duck is removed it is no longer in the bucket. It does not have to be 'removed from' it just has to be 'removed'. It is a duckless bucket although other ducks may from time to time occupy it.
In the Ward case it was suggested at some stage that the CRT had an injunction to prevent him occupying their land. I don't know if this is the case or how it would be organised but it is a relatively interesting topic to consider.
Can the CRT ban an individual from having a Boat licence?
If a man (or woman, or non binary individual with gender fluidity) has a bucket and there is a duck in it which he objects to then, assuming he has the right to remove the duck he may do so. When this action is completed the duck is no longer in the bucket.
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Post by dogless on Mar 17, 2024 9:30:16 GMT
Are you going to answer kris ? I asked how someone who is compliant with the minimum requirements of boat ownership is suddenly going to come under enforcement as you suggest is now a real likelihood? Rog
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