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Post by IainS on Nov 5, 2016 2:35:29 GMT
My engine is the little Vetus 2 cylinder, m2.04. It runs fine, little smoke, no unusual noises. There is a slight problem though: During the warmer months the engine starts fine. From around now though, until it warms up again, it doesn't start properly from cold. However much throttle I give it it just ticks over on very low revs. This lasts for up to a minute until the revs pick up, the engine then runs as it should. Any ideas what might be causing this? Gamebird's engine (also Vetus M2.04) has always done this. As soon as the half minute or so is up, it's fine for the rest of the day. I've always just put it down to the cylinders being too cold to fire the diesel until a bit after the injection point. As you say, increased throttle makes no difference, and I suspect the fuel rack is full open anyway until the revs pick up. I haven't worried about it for the last 15 years ...
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Post by smileypete on Nov 5, 2016 10:51:16 GMT
Maybe one or both injectors aren't atomising properly til the head warms up. Could try warming the injector pipes next to the injectors with a hairdryer, low heat from a heat gun, or carefully play a lighter flame on them. If there's a marked improvement then consider investigating further. Poor wiring to the glo plugs can be an issue too, a 20% voltage drop causes nearly a 40% drop in heat output. Blowing warm air into the manifold from a 12V hairdryer or fan heater can help cold starting and is a lot kinder than 'Easy-Wreck'
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Post by flatdog on Nov 5, 2016 12:08:08 GMT
....and a quick way of identifiying which injector is not atomising is feel both exhausts by the cylinder heads when she starts from cold, the one not burning you is the culprit.
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Post by IainS on Nov 5, 2016 21:21:57 GMT
Certainly in Gamebird's case, and the way I read the OP, it isn't a starting problem. It may be an atomisation problem, but, TBH, warming injector pipes would take longer than waiting for it to clear. Gamebird has done it since we got her in 1999.
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Post by smileypete on Nov 5, 2016 21:39:24 GMT
Certainly in Gamebird's case, and the way I read the OP, it isn't a starting problem. It may be an atomisation problem, but, TBH, warming injector pipes would take longer than waiting for it to clear. Gamebird has done it since we got her in 1999. Think you misunderstood there, it's a diagnostic step and was carefully worded as such.
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Post by JohnV on Nov 6, 2016 6:51:03 GMT
I have been following this thread with a lot of interest as my yoghurt pot has the same engine.
Mine is still very low hours (it had only done 60 hours when I bought the boat) it's still only about 700 hours now.
Shapfell still starts on the button without heaters in the summer, when it's cold it needs the heaters but still starts easily and runs normally straight away,
She has a watercooled exhaust so any smoking would have to be extreme before you could see it.
Hopefully it will be a long time before she starts being a reluctant starter but this thread has made me aware of possible future problems.
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 6, 2016 9:11:43 GMT
If near 240v mains I would definitely stick one of these near the engine for a couple of hours, a little DEFA car heater / fan for inside a car. I took one over to our boat and it has come in handy, if nothing else then for heating the kitchen early in the mornings.
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Post by IainS on Nov 6, 2016 16:28:15 GMT
]Think you misunderstood there, it's a diagnostic step and was carefully worded as such. Sorry, it was carefully worded, but not carefully read!
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Post by TonyDunkley on Nov 6, 2016 23:19:51 GMT
My engine is the little Vetus 2 cylinder, m2.04. It runs fine, little smoke, no unusual noises. There is a slight problem though: During the warmer months the engine starts fine. From around now though, until it warms up again, it doesn't start properly from cold. However much throttle I give it it just ticks over on very low revs. This lasts for up to a minute until the revs pick up, the engine then runs as it should. Any ideas what might be causing this? The difference in running and inability to pick up revs for the first few minutes in the lower temperatures at this time of year are unlikely to be caused solely by a general dropping off in the performance of the injectors and pump. Before embarking on any work on the fuel system it would be well worth flushing out the gearbox and changing it's oil. Thickened and dirty old ATF in the Hurth boxes that are standard fitting on these engines can produce a lot of drag simultaneously in both sets of clutches for the first few minutes in cold weather.
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Post by tonyqj on Nov 6, 2016 23:36:33 GMT
My engine is the little Vetus 2 cylinder, m2.04. It runs fine, little smoke, no unusual noises. There is a slight problem though: During the warmer months the engine starts fine. From around now though, until it warms up again, it doesn't start properly from cold. However much throttle I give it it just ticks over on very low revs. This lasts for up to a minute until the revs pick up, the engine then runs as it should. Any ideas what might be causing this? The difference in running and inability to pick up revs for the first few minutes in the lower temperatures at this time of year are unlikely to be caused solely by a general dropping off in the performance of the injectors and pump. Before embarking on any work on the fuel system it would be well worth flushing out the gearbox and changing it's oil. Thickened and dirty old ATF in the Hurth boxes that are standard fitting on these engines can produce a lot of drag simultaneously in both sets of clutches for the first few minutes in cold weather. That makes a lot of sense. I guess it could be proven by heating the box up with a heat gun prior to starting the engine?
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Post by Clinton Cool on Nov 7, 2016 8:19:39 GMT
My engine is the little Vetus 2 cylinder, m2.04. It runs fine, little smoke, no unusual noises. There is a slight problem though: During the warmer months the engine starts fine. From around now though, until it warms up again, it doesn't start properly from cold. However much throttle I give it it just ticks over on very low revs. This lasts for up to a minute until the revs pick up, the engine then runs as it should. Any ideas what might be causing this? The difference in running and inability to pick up revs for the first few minutes in the lower temperatures at this time of year are unlikely to be caused solely by a general dropping off in the performance of the injectors and pump. Before embarking on any work on the fuel system it would be well worth flushing out the gearbox and changing it's oil. Thickened and dirty old ATF in the Hurth boxes that are standard fitting on these engines can produce a lot of drag simultaneously in both sets of clutches for the first few minutes in cold weather. This seem like a great tip. I've had it on my mind from time to time that, having had the boat for 3 years, I've never changed the gearbox oil. It is indeed a Hurth gearbox. My manual says I should use "type A, suffix A, ATF. Is this a particular type of ATF or will any type, from an autofactor perhaps, do the job? Also you mentioned flushing, what's the procedure do to this, is a special fluid needed?
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Post by TonyDunkley on Nov 7, 2016 10:52:55 GMT
The difference in running and inability to pick up revs for the first few minutes in the lower temperatures at this time of year are unlikely to be caused solely by a general dropping off in the performance of the injectors and pump. Before embarking on any work on the fuel system it would be well worth flushing out the gearbox and changing it's oil. Thickened and dirty old ATF in the Hurth boxes that are standard fitting on these engines can produce a lot of drag simultaneously in both sets of clutches for the first few minutes in cold weather. This seem like a great tip. I've had it on my mind from time to time that, having had the boat for 3 years, I've never changed the gearbox oil. It is indeed a Hurth gearbox. My manual says I should use "type A, suffix A, ATF. Is this a particular type of ATF or will any type, from an autofactor perhaps, do the job? Also you mentioned flushing, what's the procedure do to this, is a special fluid needed? ATF Dexron II or III, available from motor factors or shops like Halfords, for car automatic transmissions or power steering, is OK for Hurth boxes. If the box hasn't had an oil change for at least 3 years then flushing out would be advisable, particularly if the oil that's in it now is discoloured and slightly brownish instead of the bright red colour of fresh ATF. Warm the box up with a run in gear for a good 15 - 20 minutes and drain the old oil. Re-fill with a 50/50 mix of ATF and diesel and run for a few minutes in neutral, then drain that off and re-fill with fresh oil. If the 50/50 mix comes out noticeably dirty or discoloured, repeat the flushing with the same mix until it drains out clean. Thereafter change the gearbox oil whenever you change the engine oil. If this makes no appreciable difference to the engine picking up revs and running normally immediately after a cold start-up, then we'll have to start looking for other causes.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 7, 2016 12:50:25 GMT
The difference in running and inability to pick up revs for the first few minutes in the lower temperatures at this time of year are unlikely to be caused solely by a general dropping off in the performance of the injectors and pump. Before embarking on any work on the fuel system it would be well worth flushing out the gearbox and changing it's oil. Thickened and dirty old ATF in the Hurth boxes that are standard fitting on these engines can produce a lot of drag simultaneously in both sets of clutches for the first few minutes in cold weather. This seem like a great tip. I've had it on my mind from time to time that, having had the boat for 3 years, I've never changed the gearbox oil. It is indeed a Hurth gearbox. That is too long between gearbox fluid changes imho, and I imagine you'll find the fluid will now be brown, and will probably have a bit of a nasty smell to it. It's easy enough to change, there's a 17mm drain plug directly beneath the filler plug. What I do is to place an old Chinese take-away food container beneath it and drain the fluid into that, then when you put the lid on the container you can lift it out easily and it doesn't matter if you have to tilt it to 90 degrees to get it out, which you probably will have to do.
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Post by tonyqj on Nov 7, 2016 12:53:47 GMT
This seem like a great tip. I've had it on my mind from time to time that, having had the boat for 3 years, I've never changed the gearbox oil. It is indeed a Hurth gearbox. That is too long between gearbox fluid changes imho, and I imagine you'll find the fluid will now be brown, and will probably have a bit of a nasty smell to it. It's easy enough to change, there's a 17mm drain plug directly beneath the filler plug. What I do is to place an old Chinese take-away food container beneath it and drain the fluid into that, then when you put the lid on the container you can lift it out easily and it doesn't matter if you have to tilt it to 90 degrees to get it out, which you probably will have to do. I prefer Indian takeaways, would that matter?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 7, 2016 12:55:03 GMT
That is too long between gearbox fluid changes imho, and I imagine you'll find the fluid will now be brown, and will probably have a bit of a nasty smell to it. It's easy enough to change, there's a 17mm drain plug directly beneath the filler plug. What I do is to place an old Chinese take-away food container beneath it and drain the fluid into that, then when you put the lid on the container you can lift it out easily and it doesn't matter if you have to tilt it to 90 degrees to get it out, which you probably will have to do. I prefer Indian takeaways, would that matter? That would be fine. Fish and chip wrappers might not work.
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