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Post by Clinton Cool on Apr 10, 2024 22:57:05 GMT
Talking of class I'm currently watching India 1947 partition in colour on C4. Obviously, having spent a bit of time there I have a little bit of knowledge about this but this piece adds a wealth of knowledge. There's Mountbatten, an upper class British toff, if ever there were one, in control of matters, from the British perspective, in the lead up to the separation. Add to this Indian leaders of a predominently religious disposition. Lust being a factor, between an Indian leader and Mountbatten's wife. Mountbatten's primary ojective, from the start, seeming to be to 'save face'. Who cares if millions die? As long as he comes out of it looking less than ridiculed, everything is OK.
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Apr 11, 2024 7:08:50 GMT
Talking of class I'm currently watching India 1947 partition in colour on C4. Obviously, having spent a bit of time there I have a little bit of knowledge about this but this piece adds a wealth of knowledge. There's Mountbatten, an upper class British toff, if ever there were one, in control of matters, from the British perspective, in the lead up to the separation. Add to this Indian leaders of a predominently religious disposition. Lust being a factor, between an Indian leader and Mountbatten's wife. Mountbatten's primary ojective, from the start, seeming to be to 'save face'. Who cares if millions die? As long as he comes out of it looking less than ridiculed, everything is OK. You should be working on improving your memory, Clinton, . . not sitting gawping at the gogglebox. Any recollections of this starting to come back to you yet :- thunderboat.boards.net/post/79806/thread . . . . . . . . . it's that old post of yours from 31 August 2017, . . the one in which you recounted how you and Shit-for-Brains Coventon bow-hauled your broken down boat along the canal to the Vetus agents yard in Middlewich, . . and how they lifted your engine out, and left it standing on the aft deck of your crappy boat, . . and how you and Shit-for-Brains then bow-hauled the boat, with the engine on the aft deck, back the few hundred yards along the canal and tied it up again, with the engine on the aft deck, on the same spot where you'd been broken down for the previous three weeks.
Here's your TB post, . . in case you can't remember how to open a link, . . and in a nice big typeface, easy for you to read :- "Well the engine is out now. Many thanks to Mr Stabby who hauled the boat to the lock while I made a futile effort to steer it with my pole, due to the silt being about 3 feet deep. The yard had the engine out in 2 minutes, very impressive. A fork lift truck and chains, bit of manouvering past the exhaust, it was out, and now is on my stern deck. The latest frustration is that there are no timing marks on the crankshaft pulley. It never rains, it pours." |
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Post by Clinton Cool on Apr 11, 2024 7:39:09 GMT
Talking of class I'm currently watching India 1947 partition in colour on C4. Obviously, having spent a bit of time there I have a little bit of knowledge about this but this piece adds a wealth of knowledge. There's Mountbatten, an upper class British toff, if ever there were one, in control of matters, from the British perspective, in the lead up to the separation. Add to this Indian leaders of a predominently religious disposition. Lust being a factor, between an Indian leader and Mountbatten's wife. Mountbatten's primary ojective, from the start, seeming to be to 'save face'. Who cares if millions die? As long as he comes out of it looking less than ridiculed, everything is OK. You should be working on improving your memory, Clinton, . . not sitting gawping at the gogglebox. Any recollections of this starting to come back to you yet :- thunderboat.boards.net/post/79806/thread . . . . . . . . . it's that old post of yours from 31 August 2017, . . the one in which you recounted how you and Shit-for-Brains Coventon bow-hauled your broken down boat along the canal to the Vetus agents yard in Middlewich, . . and how they lifted your engine out, and left it standing on the aft deck of your crappy boat, . . and how you and Shit-for-Brains then bow-hauled the boat, with the engine on the aft deck, back the few hundred yards along the canal and tied it up again, with the engine on the aft deck, on the same spot where you'd been broken down for the previous three weeks.
Here's your TB post, . . in case you can't remember how to open a link, . . and in a nice big typeface, easy for you to read :- "Well the engine is out now. Many thanks to Mr Stabby who hauled the boat to the lock while I made a futile effort to steer it with my pole, due to the silt being about 3 feet deep. The yard had the engine out in 2 minutes, very impressive. A fork lift truck and chains, bit of manouvering past the exhaust, it was out, and now is on my stern deck. The latest frustration is that there are no timing marks on the crankshaft pulley. It never rains, it pours."No, not really. I don't see the point in poring over historical facts, which have already been fully documented. Going over the facts again, won't change them. I suppose you could say the same about the partition of India. However, the conversation was around class and I thought this was an excellent example of the unique British class system, at its very worst. I say British but having moved to Wales 3 or so years ago, having spent the majority of my life living in England, it's better described as the English class system. It's remarkable really how there can be two countries, alongside each other, which are so different. One where, to this day, class, although largely unspoken of, remains a great stratifier as to an individual's perceived relative worth. Meanwhile over the border to the west, class, even as a sub-conscious notion, is virtually non-existent. To me, as someone who is continually fascinated by differences between groups of humans, brought about by their histories and environments (also known as culture) this was worthy of the effort needed to make a post in a conversation, one which was, at that time, touching on the subject of class. Repeating historical facts from many years ago, on a totally unrelated subject, most certainly wasn't. |
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Apr 11, 2024 8:21:10 GMT
You should be working on improving your memory, Clinton, . . not sitting gawping at the gogglebox. Any recollections of this starting to come back to you yet :- thunderboat.boards.net/post/79806/thread . . . . . . . . . it's that old post of yours from 31 August 2017, . . the one in which you recounted how you and Shit-for-Brains Coventon bow-hauled your broken down boat along the canal to the Vetus agents yard in Middlewich, . . and how they lifted your engine out, and left it standing on the aft deck of your crappy boat, . . and how you and Shit-for-Brains then bow-hauled the boat, with the engine on the aft deck, back the few hundred yards along the canal and tied it up again, with the engine on the aft deck, on the same spot where you'd been broken down for the previous three weeks.
Here's your TB post, . . in case you can't remember how to open a link, . . and in a nice big typeface, easy for you to read :- "Well the engine is out now. Many thanks to Mr Stabby who hauled the boat to the lock while I made a futile effort to steer it with my pole, due to the silt being about 3 feet deep. The yard had the engine out in 2 minutes, very impressive. A fork lift truck and chains, bit of manouvering past the exhaust, it was out, and now is on my stern deck. The latest frustration is that there are no timing marks on the crankshaft pulley. It never rains, it pours."No, not really. I don't see the point in poring over historical facts, which have already been fully documented. Going over the facts again, won't change them. Who wants any 'facts' changing ? I certainly don't. What I do want is for you to display a bit of decency and honesty, . . and publicly put the record straight, by way of the 'facts', with regard to the malicious and untrue accusations directed at me that you have been perfectly happy for your friend Vince ' Shit-for-Brains' Coventon to publish on the internet for the last six years, with the clear intention of doing harm to my professional reputation and good name. |
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Post by Clinton Cool on Apr 11, 2024 8:46:21 GMT
No, not really. I don't see the point in poring over historical facts, which have already been fully documented. Going over the facts again, won't change them. Who wants any 'facts' changing ? I certainly don't. What I do want is for you to display a bit of decency and honesty, . . and publicly put the record straight, by way of the 'facts', with regard to the malicious and untrue accusations directed at me that you have been perfectly happy for your friend Vince ' Shit-for-Brains' Coventon to publish on the internet for the last six years, with the clear intention of doing harm to my professional reputation and good name. Well if that's what you're looking for it's unlikely you'll succeed by calling people cunts, old trouts, suggesting that they double bag before being seen in public etc. etc. |
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Post by Tony Dunkley on Apr 11, 2024 9:12:12 GMT
Who wants any 'facts' changing ? I certainly don't. What I do want is for you to display a bit of decency and honesty, . . and publicly put the record straight, by way of the 'facts', with regard to the malicious and untrue accusations directed at me that you have been perfectly happy for your friend Vince ' Shit-for-Brains' Coventon to publish on the internet for the last six years, with the clear intention of doing harm to my professional reputation and good name. Well if that's what you're looking for it's unlikely you'll succeed by calling people cunts, old trouts, suggesting that they double bag before being seen in public etc. etc. I react to, and treat, people according to how they behave towards me. Be honest, decent, and respectful, and you'll get the same back in the same measure. |
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Post by Telemachus on Apr 11, 2024 9:26:44 GMT
Talking of class I'm currently watching India 1947 partition in colour on C4. Obviously, having spent a bit of time there I have a little bit of knowledge about this but this piece adds a wealth of knowledge. There's Mountbatten, an upper class British toff, if ever there were one, in control of matters, from the British perspective, in the lead up to the separation. Add to this Indian leaders of a predominently religious disposition. Lust being a factor, between an Indian leader and Mountbatten's wife. Mountbatten's primary ojective, from the start, seeming to be to 'save face'. Who cares if millions die? As long as he comes out of it looking less than ridiculed, everything is OK. However if you think the English class system is bad, India takes it to a whole new level with its caste system. And in USA, the class system is all about money (how much you have managed to horde, usually at the expense of others). So a class system based on birthright vs wealth - I can’t say I can see a clear difference in virtue between one or the other. If you don’t want some sort of class system, try communism, but even that has the ruling class and the plebes. I’m afraid I see the desire for a classless society as rather naive. |
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Post by dogless on Apr 11, 2024 9:44:54 GMT
Naive seems a bit harsh, but certainly a mythical goal.
Rog
ETA class structures are a product of being human, not being a specific nationality is what I mean . Class structures will develop under whatever guise ... it's unavoidable
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Post by Aloysius on Apr 11, 2024 10:08:59 GMT
Funny how lots of people think the Indian caste system is a British invention. Including many Indians.
Clint overuses the comma to an egregious extent.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Apr 11, 2024 10:20:43 GMT
Obviously India has a publicised, highly structured caste system which, until very recently at least, went a long way towards deciding the outcomes for each born under each respective caste.
The point I'm making about the English class system is perhaps more subtle. It's unwritten and largely, unspoken of. It's complex, not simply about, for example, how much money someone has. Despite it being largely contained within the sub-conscious it drives widespread judgment of the relative worth of folk.
I'm suggesting this is uniquely British. Or more accurately, uniquely English because my experience in Wales suggests that if it exists here, it's on a much smaller scale. For example, in a pub, you can find a rich landowner sharing a pint with a bloke off the council estate. In England, it would be more than likely to find the two drinking in different establishments.
Have a look at the people within any pub or restaurant in England. They are all broadly similar, most of the time, right?
I don't know about Scotland, perhaps Nick could comment.
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Post by on Apr 11, 2024 10:27:20 GMT
Wetherspoon is interesting. I don't usually see many other people from upper class backgrounds in these establishments.
I think perhaps they are a little frowned upon and viewed as rather infra dig in a number of different ways.
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Post by brummieboy on Apr 11, 2024 10:28:19 GMT
The class thing in this country seems to be closely allied to land, and whilst I'm sure there are estates in Wales, they don't flag up in the same way as they do in England and Scotland, countries which perpetuate their historical holdings, even when they are much diminished or held in independent trusts.
In my work, I encountered several such instances where there were locally revered individuals purely for their ancestral history, but were quite close to the financial edge. This also seemed to manifest itself in the fragile mental state of the current 'gentry'.
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Post by on Apr 11, 2024 10:35:27 GMT
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Post by on Apr 11, 2024 10:37:47 GMT
"The family fortune – ‘a proper fortune,’ says Eleanor, ‘with lots of very valuable land around South Kensington in London’ – now belonged to Sybil. With her son dead, her thoughts turned to a new heir. ‘It had been drummed into her from an early age that passing on the estates was the number-one priority,’ says Eleanor. ‘What mattered was making sure the lands and the assets ended up in the right pair of hands. She didn’t even question it – like other aristocrats, she’d been taught that protecting wealth was more important than anything else.’
This is why I am having so much trouble getting my inheritance. These people want the money and they are very organised.
Only one generation ago a child was sold to protect the money.
Mad shit.
£300k is sod all but they still want it. Hoover it all up if possible every single penny.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Apr 11, 2024 10:54:17 GMT
The class thing is evident at all levels. Youths from relatively affluent suburbs of a city refusing to enter pubs in less affluent parts, considering them to be below them. Or to use their language, 'too rough'. Another example: 12 years ago I sold my 2 bedroom terraced in a 'desirable' area for £187,000 then bought another 2 bedroom terraced in a 'rough' area, less than 4 miles away for £45,000. This level of disparity, ultimately class driven, doesn't exist in North Wales.
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