|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 31, 2024 21:13:24 GMT
Since when has there been any crossover between education and intelligence? Since you had to pass an entrance examination to be allowed into a proper school. The only reason you went to a boarding school was that your Mother wanted to be rid of you and was prepared to pay good money to achieve that end.
|
|
|
Post by metanoia on Jul 31, 2024 21:18:19 GMT
The perpetrator was only 17 - lots of vulnerable young boys are groomed at that age.
|
|
|
Post by metanoia on Jul 31, 2024 21:19:45 GMT
For all kinds of things.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jul 31, 2024 21:22:08 GMT
Since you had to pass an entrance examination to be allowed into a proper school. The only reason you went to a boarding school was that your Mother wanted to be rid of you and was prepared to pay good money to achieve that end. Unfortunately my mother wasn’t very clever. She thought she had sent me to a boarding school but it turns out I was a day boy. Home every afternoon. How she cursed! Or to put it another way, someone who thinks that a proper school must be a boarding school is completely ignorant of schooling beyond the secondary modern sink estate school that they attended (when they could be bothered).
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jul 31, 2024 21:24:50 GMT
The perpetrator was only 17 - lots of vulnerable young boys are groomed at that age. There was an interesting piece on BBC news website - the proliferation of young people without any particular affiliation to causes eg Islamist, far right etc, but simply in it for the violence. Exposed to too much rough sex porn, violent video games etc?
|
|
|
Post by on Jul 31, 2024 21:26:02 GMT
he will have absorbed a lot of culture from those places including his accent and way of speaking. Whether this was welsh or grim-north-ish is not significant. By this logic my kids, who have lived their entire lives in inner east London and been through state education would have an accent of some sort related to this. They don't. They both have a well to do English accent like I do. In French they speak exactly as their mother does. Maybe we are unusual. The kids have been in normal education since the start of primary school. To assume that someone will somehow absorb a linguistic style or accent based on where they lived as a child is patently incorrect. Parental input, depending on family circumstances, can be very powerful in a number of different regards. All the other kids at school say "innit". Both of my girls say "isn't it" in lieu of 'innit'. Sounds like a joke but its actually true. And I was like OMG.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jul 31, 2024 21:34:19 GMT
he will have absorbed a lot of culture from those places including his accent and way of speaking. Whether this was welsh or grim-north-ish is not significant. By this logic my kids, who have lived their entire lives in inner east London and been through state education would have an accent of some sort related to this. They don't. They both have a well to do English accent like I do. In French they speak exactly as their mother does. Maybe we are unusual. The kids have been in normal education since the start of primary school. To assume that someone will somehow absorb a linguistic style or accent based on where they lived as a child is patently incorrect. Parental input, depending on family circumstances, can be very powerful in a number of different regards. Patently incorrect to assign it a certainty, I’d agree, it’s not a given either way. In my case I didn’t absorb the local accent of many of my school peers, but I have also known young people who have completely different accents from their parents. I’m not sure what the contributing factors are. But most 2nd generation children of immigrants don’t seem to retain their parents’ accents - in my limited experience and superficial opinion.
|
|
|
Post by on Jul 31, 2024 21:41:38 GMT
The Woman has Moroccan parents who barely speak French despite living there for decades. She was born in France and has a normal French accent so yes it probably is true of second generation immigrants in most cases.
I was missing the point a bit there. Been a long hot day so excuse me.
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Jul 31, 2024 21:42:43 GMT
Indeed. However, if the evidence pointed towards a particular problem existing within a particular group, or groups, the educated wouldn't discount this. Unless they were driven to ignore this by an illogical theory or custom. The morons wouldn’t discount it, but the educated would know that to extrapolate from the general to the specific is a path that only people with an agenda (in this case a racist agenda, and yes I use that term carefully) would follow. Of course, it doesn't follow that the specific (the individual), who shares the characteristic with those who tend towards certain behaviours will also display the same behaviour. However, it's more likely that he or she will, than someone who doesn't share the characteristic. The educated, the intelligent and those with common sense will all know this.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jul 31, 2024 21:50:13 GMT
The morons wouldn’t discount it, but the educated would know that to extrapolate from the general to the specific is a path that only people with an agenda (in this case a racist agenda, and yes I use that term carefully) would follow. Of course, it doesn't follow that the specific (the individual), who shares the characteristic with those who tend towards certain behaviours will also display the same behaviour. However, it's more likely that he or she will, than someone who doesn't share the characteristic. Yes, but that doesn’t help one determine if a specific individual will display the behaviour in question. So many times on here I have seen people unable to grasp the difference between a generalisation and a specific case. I suppose it is vaguely related to a game of heads and tails - if the (properly random) coin toss returns 50 heads in a row, then surely the 51st toss is quite likely to return a tail because the average is 50% heads and 50% tails? No of course not! the probability of a tail is still 50%.
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Jul 31, 2024 22:05:31 GMT
Of course, it doesn't follow that the specific (the individual), who shares the characteristic with those who tend towards certain behaviours will also display the same behaviour. However, it's more likely that he or she will, than someone who doesn't share the characteristic. Yes, but that doesn’t help one determine if a specific individual will display the behaviour in question. So many times on here I have seen people unable to grasp the difference between a generalisation and a specific case. I suppose it is vaguely related to a game of heads and tails - if the (properly random) coin toss returns 50 heads in a row, then surely the 51st toss is quite likely to return a tail because the average is 50% heads and 50% tails? No of course not! the probability of a tail is still 50%. In practical terms, in our day to day lives the best way is probably just to bear it in mind. You've lived in Indonesia, you know how it is. The people don't see the stark difference between truth and lies that we do. There's no malice though. Most of the time they are trying to please, avoid offense, save face or other tricky things. I find it rather troubling that these things can't really be discussed. A common instant reaction is to cry 'racist'. It's a pity. People with different ways of doing things adds a real richness to life, in my opinion. I might say that Indonesians are lying cunts but equally, they are some of the most gentle, hospitable people you could meet. Of course, not every Indonesian will fit this mould but do we really need to state this each and every time we talk about the richness of human culture?
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jul 31, 2024 22:22:22 GMT
Yes, but that doesn’t help one determine if a specific individual will display the behaviour in question. So many times on here I have seen people unable to grasp the difference between a generalisation and a specific case. I suppose it is vaguely related to a game of heads and tails - if the (properly random) coin toss returns 50 heads in a row, then surely the 51st toss is quite likely to return a tail because the average is 50% heads and 50% tails? No of course not! the probability of a tail is still 50%. In practical terms, in our day to day lives the best way is probably just to bear it in mind. You've lived in Indonesia, you know how it is. The people don't see the stark difference between truth and lies that we do. There's no malice though. Most of the time they are trying to please, avoid offense, save face or other tricky things. I find it rather troubling that these things can't really be discussed. A common instant reaction is to cry 'racist'. It's a pity. People with different ways of doing things adds a real richness to life, in my opinion. I might say that Indonesians are lying cunts but equally, they are some of the most gentle, hospitable people you could meet. Of course, not every Indonesian will fit this mould but do we really need to state this each and every time we talk about the richness of human culture? Actually I have never visited Indonesia, never mind lived there, but that is a technical point as I have lived in the far east -Sarawak, which is part of Malaysia. Yes their logic is not quite as “logical” as ours. I think what you are saying is that it should be ok to say that eg “lots of young black men in the UK are in drugs gangs and carry knives” and “lots of Muslim men regard western women with disdain and are sex predators”. Quite possibly true as a generalisation, although probably there are far more in these ethnic groups who DON’t comply with the stereotype! But it might be true that a higher % do. But what is completely unacceptable and racist is to say that this specific person is a gangster/knife attacker/sex predator because they belong to a certain ethnic group. So really, the identification of certain ethnicities as being more likely to have adverse traits, whilst probably correct, does not carry any practical or useful value.
|
|
|
Post by Clinton Cool on Jul 31, 2024 22:42:01 GMT
In practical terms, in our day to day lives the best way is probably just to bear it in mind. You've lived in Indonesia, you know how it is. The people don't see the stark difference between truth and lies that we do. There's no malice though. Most of the time they are trying to please, avoid offense, save face or other tricky things. I find it rather troubling that these things can't really be discussed. A common instant reaction is to cry 'racist'. It's a pity. People with different ways of doing things adds a real richness to life, in my opinion. I might say that Indonesians are lying cunts but equally, they are some of the most gentle, hospitable people you could meet. Of course, not every Indonesian will fit this mould but do we really need to state this each and every time we talk about the richness of human culture? Actually I have never visited Indonesia, never mind lived there, but that is a technical point as I have lived in the far east -Sarawak, which is part of Malaysia. Yes their logic is not quite as “logical” as ours. I think what you are saying is that it should be ok to say that eg “lots of young black men in the UK are in drugs gangs and carry knives” and “lots of Muslim men regard western women with disdain and are sex predators”. Quite possibly true as a generalisation, although probably there are far more in these ethnic groups who DON’t comply with the stereotype! But it might be true that a higher % do. But what is completely unacceptable and racist is to say that this specific person is a gangster/knife attacker/sex predator because they belong to a certain ethnic group. So really, the identification of certain ethnicities as being more likely to have adverse traits, whilst probably correct, does not carry any practical or useful value. Mostly agree but the last bit: It would be unintelligent and damaging not to bear the rest of it in mind. You mention adverse traits. There's talk of those but equally, there's talk of positive ones. Just for example: I think it's a disgrace how folk in western democracies abandon their elderly parents to the state. Muslims on the other hand, do not (generalisation). Muslims also have personal hygiene routines which are far superior to those I was taught here, in Britain. In my opinion. I've adopted the Muslim way. It's a pity that folk pounce upon the first hint of a negative. It prevents what could be so much shared richness.
|
|
|
Post by on Aug 1, 2024 7:24:03 GMT
It would be interesting to get stats on admission to prisons over lets say the last 4 decades.
The data on ethnicity is presumably available. I have no idea but might the prisons be filling up with people of non British origin? Is it possible that some people who come from completely different cultures misunderstand, disrespect or even dislike our culture?
I am interested in the immigration story. Some come for work but people also claim asylum because they are 'at risk' in their home country. Why would they be 'at risk' when millions of others are not? What have they done to be 'at risk'? It seems to me they might be troublemakers. I don't find it all that wise as a policy to admit politically active troublemakers from other countries because leopards do not change their spots.
Something going on here which needs looking at.
Why does Mr A need asylum whereas a million Mr Bs do not. They must be doing something problematic in their home country which causes trouble. Do we want more troublemakers here ?
Example
Mr A makes his way here and claims asylum. His claim is that he is at risk of persecution in his home country because he is politically active against the government.
Do we
1. Let him in so he can get politically active against our government.
2. Explain that his people need him and return him to home country.
On the other hand if people who are at risk due to their religion or minority status are allowed in then we are directly discriminating by only letting some of them in. For example if there was a minority ethnic group in an African country who are persecuted and eligible for asylum we should in make efforts to get them all and install them here for safety otherwise we are discriminating against the less able which I think is illegal.
|
|
|
Post by Andyberg on Aug 1, 2024 7:30:07 GMT
people also claim asylum because they are 'at risk' in their home country. Why would they be 'at risk' when others are not? What have they done to be 'at risk'? Only have to look at the forum lefties nasty attitude on here, where anyone who posts anything, however trivial, which goes against ‘their’ way of thinking are automatically classed as Nazi / Scum / Cunts! 🙄🙄
|
|