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Post by kris on Oct 31, 2018 17:40:27 GMT
winter moorings are a bit of a protection racket. Knowing that living aboard off grid boats is basically more awkward in winter you can demand protection money. I think they are illegal but not sure. They are handy to be fair. I imagine the lack of facilities is only a problem for people living on the boats. Quite a lot of winter moorings will be taken up by non occupied boats who flit from place to place in summer but want to rest for winter. Leisure boaters. Your right I suppose, but at the moment around here(until the marinas are sold) it's cheaper to go into a bwml marina than take a winter mooring. I think when the inevitable hike in mooring prices(bwml) happens, then we will see a lot more dumpers.when has something being illegal stopped cart?
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Post by kris on Oct 31, 2018 17:42:33 GMT
This is where the difference between being a leasure boater and a livaboard becomes apparent. What starts in London spreads around the country, look at the section 8 fiasco. Yes it does say please, but the bit at the bottom infers that they are liscence terms and conditions. I take my imformation from what ever source I like thanks, oh and Nick it is your liscence money as well as mine getting spent on this rubbish.when they are a poor organisation that can't even afford to look after the infrastructure. The bit at the bottom doesn’t actually say anything significant, however it could be that there is an intent to pretend the TsandCs cover the point I suppose. Who knows? But anyway, can you not see that in places like London it is not just about what CRT want to do, it is also about pressure from nearby residents on their councillors and MPs to “do something about” generator/engine noise and chimney smoke. If boater’s just ignore the “please” signs, it will all end in tears with local (council) bylaws prohibiting nuisance from generators or chimneys. It is only a matter of time. Why can't you see that this already adversly effects livaboard boaters. Let alone in the future.
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 31, 2018 17:47:47 GMT
The bit at the bottom doesn’t actually say anything significant, however it could be that there is an intent to pretend the TsandCs cover the point I suppose. Who knows? But anyway, can you not see that in places like London it is not just about what CRT want to do, it is also about pressure from nearby residents on their councillors and MPs to “do something about” generator/engine noise and chimney smoke. If boater’s just ignore the “please” signs, it will all end in tears with local (council) bylaws prohibiting nuisance from generators or chimneys. It is only a matter of time. Why can't you see that this already adversly effects livaboard boaters. Let alone in the future. Yes of course I can see it - for live aboard boaters in London anyway. But sometimes things don’t always go the way you want them to and in my opinion, it is quite likely that if urban boaters persist in creating noise and smoke in an inconsiderate way, more draconian restrictions and penalties will be created. It doesn’t matter if you like it, if I like it, whether it’s “fair” or not. It will happen unless boaters take care to minimise the nuisance they cause to others when in residential urban areas. In other words, complying with the notice is likely to be the lesser of the two evils in the long term. Plus of course, isn’t it a good thing to encourage people to be considerate? Probably in short supply in London where it’s every man for himself and dog eat dog etc, but no harm in trying!
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Post by Jim on Oct 31, 2018 17:50:57 GMT
The bit at the bottom doesn’t actually say anything significant, however it could be that there is an intent to pretend the TsandCs cover the point I suppose. Who knows? But anyway, can you not see that in places like London it is not just about what CRT want to do, it is also about pressure from nearby residents on their councillors and MPs to “do something about” generator/engine noise and chimney smoke. If boater’s just ignore the “please” signs, it will all end in tears with local (council) bylaws prohibiting nuisance from generators or chimneys. It is only a matter of time. Why can't you see that this already adversly effects livaboard boaters. Let alone in the future. I think we do see this, not only for liveaboards, e.g. the T&Cs. Caused by thoughtless chancers down south pushing or ignoring the boundaries. How do you propose that cart deal with the smoke and genny noise, if it is causing a problem? On a personal front swmbo feels decidedly unwell when she has to breath coal smoke.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 18:05:07 GMT
winter moorings are a bit of a protection racket. Knowing that living aboard off grid boats is basically more awkward in winter you can demand protection money. I think they are illegal but not sure. They are handy to be fair. I imagine the lack of facilities is only a problem for people living on the boats. Quite a lot of winter moorings will be taken up by non occupied boats who flit from place to place in summer but want to rest for winter. Leisure boaters. Oi! I resemble that remark. You live a life of leisure, on a boat, so you are a leisure boater. I'm certainly a leisure boater I would never deny it
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 18:06:56 GMT
winter moorings are a bit of a protection racket. Knowing that living aboard off grid boats is basically more awkward in winter you can demand protection money. I think they are illegal but not sure. They are handy to be fair. I imagine the lack of facilities is only a problem for people living on the boats. Quite a lot of winter moorings will be taken up by non occupied boats who flit from place to place in summer but want to rest for winter. Leisure boaters. Your right I suppose, but at the moment around here(until the marinas are sold) it's cheaper to go into a bwml marina than take a winter mooring. I think when the inevitable hike in mooring prices(bwml) happens, then we will see a lot more dumpers.when has something being illegal stopped cart? Interestingly CRT did once try winter towpath moorings in inner London but for some reason they were withdrawn. Possibly something about competition or maybe their were illegal. I can't remember. Its the sort of thing we need NigelMoore to comment on
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 18:09:37 GMT
Why can't you see that this already adversly effects livaboard boaters. Let alone in the future. Yes of course I can see it - for live aboard boaters in London anyway. But sometimes things don’t always go the way you want them to and in my opinion, it is quite likely that if urban boaters persist in creating noise and smoke in an inconsiderate way, more draconian restrictions and penalties will be created. It doesn’t matter if you like it, if I like it, whether it’s “fair” or not. It will happen unless boaters take care to minimise the nuisance they cause to others when in residential urban areas. In other words, complying with the notice is likely to be the lesser of the two evils in the long term. Plus of course, isn’t it a good thing to encourage people to be considerate? Probably in short supply in London where it’s every man for himself and dog eat dog etc, but no harm in trying! Plus the fact there is quite a high churn rate ie people live on boats but would rather not its just a cheap and as soon as possible they go onto land. If you know that any future changes will not affect you then you can more or less do what you like so being considerate is probably not that interesting as a strategy to a lot of people.
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Post by kris on Oct 31, 2018 18:12:19 GMT
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Post by patty on Oct 31, 2018 18:15:54 GMT
I guess the problem originates with those who do burn wet wood/create lots of smoke and run engines for silly hours and cause resentment and then all have to pay the price.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 18:20:15 GMT
exactly that. And these people will vanish before changes effect their lifestyle because it is not a "lifestyle choice" its simply cheap accommodation.
If it is legal to live on roads in vans people will do this and have smoky fires and noisy generators. Its just a loophole.
Nothing complicated going on.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 18:23:45 GMT
kris I burn solid fuel (less smoke fuel and some wood to get it going) because I like a fire on a boat but to be fair it is feasible to heat a boat with diesel stove which would produce less visible pollution. It probably won't stop the neighbours getting cancer (which is a made up risk anyway) but at least they can't see the smoke. Or perhaps oil heating in day time then chuck all the low grade housecoal and tyres on the fire overnight when nobody can see the smoke All very silly. I've not been in an aircraft for the last 25 years can I have some credits please.
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Post by kris on Oct 31, 2018 18:32:19 GMT
kris I burn solid fuel (less smoke fuel and some wood to get it going) because I like a fire on a boat but to be fair it is feasible to heat a boat with diesel stove which would produce less visible pollution. It probably won't stop the neighbours getting cancer (which is a made up risk anyway) but at least they can't see the smoke. Or perhaps oil heating in day time then chuck all the low grade housecoal and tyres on the fire overnight when nobody can see the smoke All very silly. I've not been in an aircraft for the last 25 years can I have some credits please. Yes I also burn less smoke fuel and need wood to get it lit. As you say diesel heating produces less visible smoke, but still pollutes. So are you saying we should all convert to oil heating? Yes you can have lots of credits for not flying for 25years, this might not be a stupid idea. A personal pollution profile, how much pollution your actions produce and taken into account. How often do you buy a new phone/car/tv etc. What temp do you heat your house to? How many air miles has your food done etc. This would have to be monitored of course with a limit imposed on individuals. It could mean the end of modern consumerist society.
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 31, 2018 19:19:39 GMT
kris I burn solid fuel (less smoke fuel and some wood to get it going) because I like a fire on a boat but to be fair it is feasible to heat a boat with diesel stove which would produce less visible pollution. It probably won't stop the neighbours getting cancer (which is a made up risk anyway) but at least they can't see the smoke. Or perhaps oil heating in day time then chuck all the low grade housecoal and tyres on the fire overnight when nobody can see the smoke All very silly. I've not been in an aircraft for the last 25 years can I have some credits please. Yes I also burn less smoke fuel and need wood to get it lit. As you say diesel heating produces less visible smoke, but still pollutes. So are you saying we should all convert to oil heating? Yes you can have lots of credits for not flying for 25years, this might not be a stupid idea. A personal pollution profile, how much pollution your actions produce and taken into account. How often do you buy a new phone/car/tv etc. What temp do you heat your house to? How many air miles has your food done etc. This would have to be monitored of course with a limit imposed on individuals. It could mean the end of modern consumerist society. Would I get negative air miles for flying my glider for hours without using any fossil fuels?
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 31, 2018 19:23:39 GMT
Yes it isn’t easy to make no noise or smoke when you live on a boat in winter. However that is by the by. You are coming from a position whereby it is your right (subject to paying for a licence) to do so. Fine - while it lasts. My point is that one day, if the general public complain enough, it won’t be your right to do so. You will be able to protest all you like but as a tiny minority of citizens are live aboard boaters, it’s unlikely to have much effect. The better approach is for everyone to be as considerate as possible and then that puts off, maybe for ever, the prospect of losing the right to live aboard on line in urban areas with stove and genny.
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Post by kris on Oct 31, 2018 19:23:41 GMT
Yes I also burn less smoke fuel and need wood to get it lit. As you say diesel heating produces less visible smoke, but still pollutes. So are you saying we should all convert to oil heating? Yes you can have lots of credits for not flying for 25years, this might not be a stupid idea. A personal pollution profile, how much pollution your actions produce and taken into account. How often do you buy a new phone/car/tv etc. What temp do you heat your house to? How many air miles has your food done etc. This would have to be monitored of course with a limit imposed on individuals. It could mean the end of modern consumerist society. Would I get negative air miles for flying my glider for hours without using any fossil fuels? Depends how many miles do you travel there and back to the airfield?
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