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Post by kris on Jun 17, 2017 7:46:25 GMT
They are doing this on all Crt moorings, I hate to say I told you so. But saying stuff like this would happen is why me and others got thrown off cwdf. Parry and his cronies where always heading this way. They wen a letter to mooring boxers about it. I'll see if I can photograph.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 7:48:09 GMT
As D9 say it is a proper official sign. I have a photo.Β Refers to District Enforcement Ltd and authorises them to use debit recovery to recover charges. Also empowers them to move the vessel as instructed by CRT. I'm intrigued how they would actually recover charges? Β Put a ticket on your window? Clamp your prop? Β Impound your buckby cans? They send a diver in who removes your propeller and only refits it once you',ve paid up.
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Post by NigelMoore on Jun 17, 2017 7:49:03 GMT
Taking the claim on the sign at face value - that the moorings are on 'private' owned land [which could only legitimately refer to offside bank] - then CaRT would be entitled to set whatever charges they wished upon whatever conditions they wished, whether reasonable or not. Apart from the nonsense about "taking possession" of an offending boat, they are entitled under s.8(5) to remove the boat to another part of the waterway so that it no longer obstructs the mooring referred to.
If the sign was wrong, and referred simply to a designated length of towpath, then the whole thing would be illegitimate. It would be important to know which was the real situation before getting up in arms.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 8:06:37 GMT
Taking the claim on the sign at face value - that the moorings are on 'private' owned land [which could only legitimately refer to offside bank] - then CaRT would be entitled to set whatever charges they wished upon whatever conditions they wished, whether reasonable or not. Apart from the nonsense about "taking possession" of an offending boat, they are entitled under s.8(5) to remove the boat to another part of the waterway so that it no longer obstructs the mooring referred to. If the sign was wrong, and referred simply to a designated length of towpath, then the whole thing would be illegitimate. It would be important to know which was the real situation before getting up in arms. It's on the offside at cowley north in Uxbridge I believe. There are moorings opposite which are towpath. Still private land I would have thought? Wouldn't surprise me if they had a go at putting these on towpath moorings as well. Typical civil servant behaviour, a problem solved by making up new rules. Parry's answer to everything seems to be "lets go to court". I hate to say it, but Robin Evans didn't come close to being as arrogant and ignorant as this one.
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Post by Telemachus on Jun 17, 2017 8:15:45 GMT
So a storm in a teacup then.
There needs to be a mechanism to prevent boats mooring in the wrong place, which would include private pay-for moorings. Otherwise it just becomes a free for all. Those of us with houses wouldn't be too pleased to come home and find some random stranger had parked their car on our front lawn and gone in holiday for 2 weeks, I didn't see the difference.
Now I'll agree that CRT should act within the law but one also has to bear in mind that this sort of signage has only deemed to have become necessary due to the bad behaviour of boaters - a small minority of whom think that rules and considerate behaviour are the domain of someone else. Do you really want to emasculate CRT to the point that everyone is moored up on lock landings, services, water points, temporarily vacant residential moorings, private offside land etc? Although CRT may have powers under section 8 and bylaws, in reality there are a lot of boaters who, given half a chance, would abuse the system and thus scare tactics are better value for the licence-payer's money than piecemeal enforcement.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 8:22:53 GMT
So a storm in a teacup then. There needs to be a mechanism to prevent boats mooring in the wrong place, which would include private pay-for moorings. Otherwise it just becomes a free for all. Those of us with houses wouldn't be too pleased to come home and find some random stranger had parked their car on our front lawn and gone in holiday for 2 weeks, I didn't see the difference. Now I'll agree that CRT should act within the law but one also has to bear in mind that this sort of signage has only deemed to have become necessary due to the bad behaviour of boaters - a small minority of whom think that rules and considerate behaviour are the domain of someone else. Do you really want to emasculate CRT to the point that everyone is moored up on lock landings, services, water points, temporarily vacant residential moorings, private offside land etc? Although CRT may have powers under section 8 and bylaws, in reality there are a lot of boaters who, given half a chance, would abuse the system and thus scare tactics are better value for the licence-payer's money than piecemeal enforcement. I know most of the moorers at cowley north, not one has had an issue with someone pinching their mooring. Anyway, the trust already has the power to remove a boat if it's causing an obstruction. They just lack the balls to do it themselves. It's basically a non issue, and I dont see the agreement lasting long, as the parking company is not going to make any money whatsoever from it. The concern should be, when, and how far this will be extended into general boating.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 8:28:45 GMT
Did it coincide with signage for the mooring being changed from "CRT Long Term" to a branded "Waterside Moorings" location.
I think all of the (non transferable) CRT moorings are now under the "Waterside Moorings" website but I was just thinking perhaps as new signs were being put up anyway they could add this bit?
If no one has a problem with people using their moorings then its an irrelevant "non issue" anyway aka it doesn't matter. Is this also something to do with people subletting moorings perhaps ? Overly officious signage is a nuisance but there are a lot of more serious things happening.
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Post by Telemachus on Jun 17, 2017 8:29:08 GMT
So a storm in a teacup then. There needs to be a mechanism to prevent boats mooring in the wrong place, which would include private pay-for moorings. Otherwise it just becomes a free for all. Those of us with houses wouldn't be too pleased to come home and find some random stranger had parked their car on our front lawn and gone in holiday for 2 weeks, I didn't see the difference. Now I'll agree that CRT should act within the law but one also has to bear in mind that this sort of signage has only deemed to have become necessary due to the bad behaviour of boaters - a small minority of whom think that rules and considerate behaviour are the domain of someone else. Do you really want to emasculate CRT to the point that everyone is moored up on lock landings, services, water points, temporarily vacant residential moorings, private offside land etc? Although CRT may have powers under section 8 and bylaws, in reality there are a lot of boaters who, given half a chance, would abuse the system and thus scare tactics are better value for the licence-payer's money than piecemeal enforcement. I know most of the moorers at cowley north, not one has had an issue with someone pinching their mooring. Anyway, the trust already has the power to remove a boat if it's causing an obstruction. They just lack the balls to do it themselves. It's basically a non issue, and I dont see the agreement lasting long, as the parking company is not going to make any money whatsoever from it. The concern should be, when, and how far this will be extended into general boating. So in you opinion, the motivation for this signage and agreement was not a problem with boats mooring there without permission, but - presumably - someone in an office, bored, nothing to do, thinking of things to invent? Seems a bit unlikely to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 8:31:48 GMT
I know most of the moorers at cowley north, not one has had an issue with someone pinching their mooring. Anyway, the trust already has the power to remove a boat if it's causing an obstruction. They just lack the balls to do it themselves. It's basically a non issue, and I dont see the agreement lasting long, as the parking company is not going to make any money whatsoever from it. The concern should be, when, and how far this will be extended into general boating. So in you opinion, the motivation for this signage and agreement was not a problem with boats mooring there without permission, but - presumably - someone in an office, bored, nothing to do, thinking of things to invent? Seems a bit unlikely to me. I think its possible that CRT want Waterside Moorings to look like an organised and aggressive organisation, rather than targeting a specific problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 8:33:13 GMT
I know most of the moorers at cowley north, not one has had an issue with someone pinching their mooring. Anyway, the trust already has the power to remove a boat if it's causing an obstruction. They just lack the balls to do it themselves. It's basically a non issue, and I dont see the agreement lasting long, as the parking company is not going to make any money whatsoever from it. The concern should be, when, and how far this will be extended into general boating. So in you opinion, the motivation for this signage and agreement was not a problem with boats mooring there without permission, but - presumably - someone in an office, bored, nothing to do, thinking of things to invent? Seems a bit unlikely to me. Most things seem to be unlikely for you. Facts seem to pass from one ear to the other with no obstruction.
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Post by Telemachus on Jun 17, 2017 8:52:59 GMT
So in you opinion, the motivation for this signage and agreement was not a problem with boats mooring there without permission, but - presumably - someone in an office, bored, nothing to do, thinking of things to invent? Seems a bit unlikely to me. Most things seem to be unlikely for you. Facts seem to pass from one ear to the other with no obstruction. You are quite short of rational argument these days. i wonder why you bother to participate when you have so little of substance to say?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 9:26:40 GMT
Most things seem to be unlikely for you. Facts seem to pass from one ear to the other with no obstruction. You are quite short of rational argument these days. i wonder why you bother to participate when you have so little of substance to say?
Pot kettle black. I tend to divulge facts, something you struggle to deal with. Given you attended two meetings with crt where you had the opportunity to voice your opinion, yet sat in silence for fear of making a twat of yourself, it's quite obvious the internet and forums are where your level of participation ends. Put simply, an internet warrior. π
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Post by erivers on Jun 17, 2017 9:55:20 GMT
In my view, the sign is essentially prohibitive - restricting mooring to holders of a mooring agreement only. Mooring is not offered to others. It is hard to see how any valid contract for these charges can thus be formed with anyone other than the holder of a mooring agreement. There have been many private parking cases thrown out by the courts on a similar basis.
District Enforcement was the outfit first used by the Environment Agency on Thames moorings. They were soon replaced, but DE continued to use the Environment Agency logo on their parking website for many months, presumably to boost their credibility. It took several letters to the EA before the logo was ordered to be removed. They do not now operate the EA scheme but it still figures prominently on the "Moorings Enforcement' section of their website.
Perhaps the perceived benefit here for DE is a 'prestigious' association with the Trust and we shall eventually see the CRT logo plastered over their website. Perhaps they have even paid CRT for the 'privilege' rather than relying on the (unlikely) collection of these penalty charges.
But the sign probably works to deter most unauthorised mooring!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 10:45:07 GMT
This is all part of the continuing trend of isolating the responsibility of those who run organisations from delivering enforcement. It reduces the amount of direct conflict between CEO's etc and the general public. Effectively hiding behind bullies and thugs.
What's changed?
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Post by patty on Jun 17, 2017 13:56:04 GMT
It's now 2.50pm. How many here have sent an e-mail to CRT for clarification?
Oh.... no-one.
How disappointing. Its a lazy hazy sorrta day......as for me Im sitting in the sun
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