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Post by Telemachus on Oct 1, 2017 21:21:49 GMT
I seriously doubt dragging people out of polling stations by their hair and kicking people sitting on the floor with heavy boots is going to reduce the desire of those who seek independence to achieve it. Sending those thugs in to try and stop that election was a serious miscalculation on the part of the Spanish govt. Probably not, but one has to bear in mind that the culture of some countries is different to ours. In this country, one can call the police "pigs" to their faces and tell them to fuck off when they want you to "move on" and disperse an illegal gathering - and get away with it. Other countries - most other countries - are far less tolerant of disobeying and fronting up to the police.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 21:28:54 GMT
I seriously doubt dragging people out of polling stations by their hair and kicking people sitting on the floor with heavy boots is going to reduce the desire of those who seek independence to achieve it. Sending those thugs in to try and stop that election was a serious miscalculation on the part of the Spanish govt. Probably not, but one has to bear in mind that the culture of some countries is different to ours. In this country, one can call the police "pigs" to their faces and tell them to fuck off when they want you to "move on" and disperse an illegal gathering - and get away with it. Other countries - most other countries - are far less tolerant of disobeying and fronting up to the police. No not probably I would say, rather definitely. Lashing out at local fire fighters was likely their star performance of today.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 21:33:58 GMT
Unusually I'm with MJG on this.
The very raison d'etre of the authorities has been destroyed by these indefensible actions.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" Ghandi
Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 1, 2017 21:35:49 GMT
Probably not, but one has to bear in mind that the culture of some countries is different to ours. In this country, one can call the police "pigs" to their faces and tell them to fuck off when they want you to "move on" and disperse an illegal gathering - and get away with it. Other countries - most other countries - are far less tolerant of disobeying and fronting up to the police. No not probably I would say, rather definitely. Lashing out at local fire fighters was likely their star performance of today. I say "probably" because I am not so presumptive as to think I know what goes on in some other different-culture people's heads. But probably it will not change opinion, only polarise it more. Those who want independence will now want it more, those who don't will be glad the national police stepped in to quash an illegal event created by an unconstitutional rabble of troublemakers.
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 1, 2017 21:38:26 GMT
Unusually I'm with MJG on this. The very raison d'etre of the authorities has been destroyed by these indefensible actions. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" Ghandi Rog I suppose it depends on whether you think the Spanish government knows how it's people's minds work, better or worse than you do. I'm sure they spent a lot of time and effort over the strategy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 21:40:09 GMT
No not probably I would say, rather definitely. Lashing out at local fire fighters was likely their star performance of today. I say "probably" because I am not so presumptive as to think I know what goes on in some other different-culture people's heads. But probably it will not change opinion, only polarise it more. Those who want independence will now want it more, those who don't will be glad the national police stepped in to quash an illegal event created by an unconstitutional rabble of troublemakers. I would say the behaviour of the police is more likely to create sympathy for the notion of independence but yes I am not either Spanish or Catalonian.
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Post by JohnV on Oct 2, 2017 7:05:31 GMT
results according to Sky ..... 90% in favour of independence
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 2, 2017 7:27:26 GMT
results according to Sky ..... 90% in favour of independence 90% of how many? If you are not in favour of independence, do you vote "no", or do you boycott the illegal referendum?
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 2, 2017 7:30:04 GMT
Quite possibly, but that is a different point. It's the same with Scotland - should Westminster block an "unofficial" independence referendum thus stoking anti-English feeling Yes, in the hope that the Scots would get really livid. Then the remaining UK-Government could send the Police up to Scotland with their truncheons to whack a few Campbells and McGregors on the bonce. I suggest they send at first South Yorkshire Police (for fucking up Cliff Richard's life) and Merseyside Police (for standing idly by whilst Lightship Planet was being stolen). That's me, second from the left. I was having a bad hair day.
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Post by JohnV on Oct 2, 2017 7:30:38 GMT
results according to Sky ..... 90% in favour of independence 90% of how many? If you are not in favour of independence, do you vote "no", or do you boycott the illegal referendum? 42% voted in spite of the police violence ...... so I don't think you can use that argument
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 2, 2017 7:33:31 GMT
90% of how many? If you are not in favour of independence, do you vote "no", or do you boycott the illegal referendum? 42% voted in spite of the police violence ...... so I don't think you can use that argument So 90% of 42% =37% is not a majority for independence. And with all the chaos, it seems odd that they have such precise figures already. Of course the figures are being put out by the organisation pushing for independence. No potential for bias there! The police violence is surely likely to put off most people, leaving only the rabid mob of extremist nationalists with enough fervour to bother to vote.
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Post by JohnV on Oct 2, 2017 7:36:25 GMT
90% of how many? If you are not in favour of independence, do you vote "no", or do you boycott the illegal referendum? 42% voted in spite of the police violence ...... so I don't think you can use that argument adding to that post ...... I suspect that if it was held again now the vote would be even more overwhelming ..... the strikes called for in the next couple of days will be interesting The Spanish government has totally ballsed up the situation ......... I think Catalonian independence is now almost a certainty ...... the question is .... how much violence. Up till now the movement for Catalonian independence has been entirely non-violent on their side ..... the violence has been from the Madrid government.
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 2, 2017 7:42:45 GMT
42% voted in spite of the police violence ...... so I don't think you can use that argument adding to that post ...... I suspect that if it was held again now the vote would be even more overwhelming ..... the strikes called for in the next couple of days will be interesting The Spanish government has totally ballsed up the situation ......... I think Catalonian independence is now almost a certainty ...... the question is .... how much violence. Up till now the movement for Catalonian independence has been entirely non-violent on their side ..... the violence has been from the Madrid government. But when you occupy public buildings to commit an illegal act and refuse to come out, generally you know it's likely to end up in violence. It would be exactly the same in the UK with any other crime for which you refuse to "come quietly". Police will use force to get their way. Otherwise, what's the point in having them - Police: "Joe Bloggs, i arresting you on suspicion of killing this child." Joe:"Piss off. I'm busy trawling the internet for more victims". Police:"Ok fair enough, we'll come back when it's more convenient". Yea right!
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Post by JohnV on Oct 2, 2017 7:44:56 GMT
adding to that post ...... I suspect that if it was held again now the vote would be even more overwhelming ..... the strikes called for in the next couple of days will be interesting The Spanish government has totally ballsed up the situation ......... I think Catalonian independence is now almost a certainty ...... the question is .... how much violence. Up till now the movement for Catalonian independence has been entirely non-violent on their side ..... the violence has been from the Madrid government. But when you occupy public buildings to commit an illegal act and refuse to come out, generally you know it's likely to end up in violence. It would be exactly the same in the UK with any other crime for which you refuse to "come quietly". Police will use force to get their way. Otherwise, what's the point in having them - Police: "Joe Bloggs, i arresting you on suspicion of killing this child." Joe:"Piss off. I'm busy trawling the internet for more victims". Police:"Ok fair enough, we'll come back when it's more convenient". Yea right! Your arguments are getting steadily more farfetched ....... that one was crappy ..... as you are well aware
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 2, 2017 7:51:46 GMT
But when you occupy public buildings to commit an illegal act and refuse to come out, generally you know it's likely to end up in violence. It would be exactly the same in the UK with any other crime for which you refuse to "come quietly". Police will use force to get their way. Otherwise, what's the point in having them - Police: "Joe Bloggs, i arresting you on suspicion of killing this child." Joe:"Piss off. I'm busy trawling the internet for more victims". Police:"Ok fair enough, we'll come back when it's more convenient". Yea right! Your arguments are getting steadily more farfetched ....... that one was crappy ..... as you are well aware No more far fetched than saying 90% were in favour of independence. But that didn't stop you giving it credibility by repeating it.
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