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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 7:46:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 8:24:35 GMT
Donald has a concealed carry permit apparently. Its impressive to see some of the concealed weapons they make so you can pretend not to be carrying a gun Like this .38 caliber unit www.idealconceal.com"Its better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 8:25:30 GMT
And in America that is the truth.
It is impossible to turn back the clock and create a gun free society, as the gun is woven into the fabric of their history.
Rog
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Post by bills on Oct 3, 2017 8:31:12 GMT
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
I don't think this should necessarily be repealed. Just add a clause that firearms must be limited to flintlock muskets and pistols, as existed at the time the amendment was written.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 8:31:53 GMT
I think if I lived in the USA I'd carry a gun. You don't have to kill someone straight away, you can shoot them in the foot first, for instance. Then, at least they still live, but can't run after you. But it'd be pretty pointless shooting someone in the foot if they also had a gun. Probably better to pull out your cricket bat and smash his hand or just to be on the safe side shoot him in the headwith your handgun ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 8:36:24 GMT
They seem to mostly have trouble with mad people getting hold of military type assault rifles. I doubt a handgun would have helped any of the victims as they would not know where to shoot.
My favourite american gun shop scene Terminator 1 - Gun Shop Scene:
"And I'd like a quarter of lemon sherbets with that please"
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Post by peterboat on Oct 3, 2017 8:55:39 GMT
My outlook is this, is that Europeans don't have guns, and simply because they're not freely available, we're free to walk around with no fear of getting suddenly shot. The argument that "guns don't kill, people do" doesn't make much headway, as in a country such as the USA where the streets are awash with guns, people do pick them up and fire them willy-nilly. How many times have we read about kids finding guns in their parents' bedside cabinet and shooting their little brother? I understand why Americans have guns, because of their Wild West history. Self protection. And nowadays, with the extreme Capitalism in the USA which makes lots of people poor and desperate and in fear of losing their jobs and salaries, there's the constant awareness that you'll be mugged/robbed. Robbers may think twice, because they don't know if someone has a gun or not. In some states you must wear your gun openly, in others it may be concealed. With guns being easy to get hold of, there will be such shooting incidents as yesterday's. Anyone remember Columbine and Gregory Peck saying "There will be another Columbine"? I'm happy to live in a society where guns are forbidden (in the general public sort of way) - shootings are rare in Europe. Anyway, if you've not been to the USA, I would recommend a visit. Don't believe all you see on TV. I even thought how quiet it was in Manhattan, when everyone claims the streets are packed with fast-moving crowds, and I thought New Yorkers to be surpringly friendly. I should certainly like to spend more time travelling around the USA. We dont have legal guns in this country however that hasnt stopped a couple of large killings has it? Hungerford and the Scottish one begins with a D I think. Blair banned guns and still I can buy them on any street corner in Britain!!
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Post by peterboat on Oct 3, 2017 9:00:56 GMT
Guns never kill anybody its the idiot that pulls the trigger thats the problem!! If they didnt have legal guns they would still have guns or something else to kill and maim Tell me Peter, how would you kill 58 (and counting) people and injure 500 others from a 32nd floor Hotel room with a catapult? Homemade bomb from the internet full of nails, nuts and bolts placed in the crowd and detonated from said hotel window, if you got lucky you would kill 2-300!!! Martin people are evil in some cases and nothing will stop them
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 9:13:03 GMT
Tell me Peter, how would you kill 58 (and counting) people and injure 500 others from a 32nd floor Hotel room with a catapult? Homemade bomb from the internet full of nails, nuts and bolts placed in the crowd and detonated from said hotel window, if you got lucky you would kill 2-300!!! Martin people are evil in some cases and nothing will stop them Unlikely - it's a sad but true fact that when you detonate a bomb in a large densely crowded area the blast effects are increasingly absorbed by the victims on a decreasingly incremental basis. You would need access to materials that are not generally available to the public to kill that many which is how guns, certainly of the type used in Las Vegas should be treated. Yes people will still drive on pavements in lorries and detonate home made devices the issue here is the capacity to cause harm before you are stopped. If he'd been shooting with a handgun there is no way he would have caused that number of fatalities and injuries, 500 FFS! In my opinion the 'guns don't kill people do' argument is a weak one trotted out by Americans who prop up the NRA and it's misguided views about why they need gun control over there.They will just stand idly by and watch these attacks repeat over and over again.
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Post by peterboat on Oct 3, 2017 9:21:05 GMT
Homemade bomb from the internet full of nails, nuts and bolts placed in the crowd and detonated from said hotel window, if you got lucky you would kill 2-300!!! Martin people are evil in some cases and nothing will stop them Unlikely - it's a sad but true fact that when you detonate a bomb in a large densely crowded area the blast effects are increasingly absorbed by the victims on a decreasingly incremental basis. You would need access to materials that are not generally available to the public to kill that many which is how guns, certainly of the type used in Las Vegas should be treated. Yes people will still drive on pavements in lorries and detonate home made devices the issue here is the capacity to cause harm before you are stopped. If he'd been shooting with a handgun there is no way he would have caused that number of fatalities and injuries, 500 FFS! In my opinion the 'guns don't kill people do' argument is a weak one trotted out by Americans who prop up the NRA and it's misguided views about why they need gun control over there.They will just stand idly by and watch these attacks repeat over and over again. Martin I have seen the results of home made bombs close up!! I have cleaned the bits of people up and put them in bags. In America you can real explosives with ease I am afraid so a proper bomb is easily made
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 9:25:06 GMT
My outlook is this, is that Europeans don't have guns, and simply because they're not freely available, we're free to walk around with no fear of getting suddenly shot. The argument that "guns don't kill, people do" doesn't make much headway, as in a country such as the USA where the streets are awash with guns, people do pick them up and fire them willy-nilly. How many times have we read about kids finding guns in their parents' bedside cabinet and shooting their little brother? I understand why Americans have guns, because of their Wild West history. Self protection. And nowadays, with the extreme Capitalism in the USA which makes lots of people poor and desperate and in fear of losing their jobs and salaries, there's the constant awareness that you'll be mugged/robbed. Robbers may think twice, because they don't know if someone has a gun or not. In some states you must wear your gun openly, in others it may be concealed. With guns being easy to get hold of, there will be such shooting incidents as yesterday's. Anyone remember Columbine and Gregory Peck saying "There will be another Columbine"? I'm happy to live in a society where guns are forbidden (in the general public sort of way) - shootings are rare in Europe. Anyway, if you've not been to the USA, I would recommend a visit. Don't believe all you see on TV. I even thought how quiet it was in Manhattan, when everyone claims the streets are packed with fast-moving crowds, and I thought New Yorkers to be surpringly friendly. I should certainly like to spend more time travelling around the USA. We dont have legal guns in this country however that hasnt stopped a couple of large killings has it? Hungerford and the Scottish one begins with a D I think. Blair banned guns and still I can buy them on any street corner in Britain!! Sorry Peter but you are exaggerating how easy it his to buy an illegal weapon in this country, of course it's possible in some parts of the county but claiming it can be done on 'any street corner' is over stating it. And the point is of course that that at itself is illegal and that is why they are better controlled over here than they are in the states with less likelihood of falling into the wrong hands. You can probably never eliminate possession of guns but you can control them (and the types available) which is what our system here is based on with aim of reducing the capacity to harm. eliminating the capacity to harm is likely impossible.
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Post by thebfg on Oct 3, 2017 9:45:56 GMT
My outlook is this, is that Europeans don't have guns, and simply because they're not freely available, we're free to walk around with no fear of getting suddenly shot. The argument that "guns don't kill, people do" doesn't make much headway, as in a country such as the USA where the streets are awash with guns, people do pick them up and fire them willy-nilly. How many times have we read about kids finding guns in their parents' bedside cabinet and shooting their little brother? I understand why Americans have guns, because of their Wild West history. Self protection. And nowadays, with the extreme Capitalism in the USA which makes lots of people poor and desperate and in fear of losing their jobs and salaries, there's the constant awareness that you'll be mugged/robbed. Robbers may think twice, because they don't know if someone has a gun or not. In some states you must wear your gun openly, in others it may be concealed. With guns being easy to get hold of, there will be such shooting incidents as yesterday's. Anyone remember Columbine and Gregory Peck saying "There will be another Columbine"? I'm happy to live in a society where guns are forbidden (in the general public sort of way) - shootings are rare in Europe. Anyway, if you've not been to the USA, I would recommend a visit. Don't believe all you see on TV. I even thought how quiet it was in Manhattan, when everyone claims the streets are packed with fast-moving crowds, and I thought New Yorkers to be surpringly friendly. I should certainly like to spend more time travelling around the USA. We dont have legal guns in this country however that hasnt stopped a couple of large killings has it? Hungerford and the Scottish one begins with a D I think. Blair banned guns and still I can buy them on any street corner in Britain!! weren't those two incidents before the ban.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 9:52:19 GMT
The two major shooting incidents you refer to were Dunblane and Hungerford. There have been other such 'rampages' by solo gunmen.
The levels of gun incidents in the UK are minimal in comparison to the USA I'm happy to say.
In part this is due to gun controls, but undoubtedly a further contributory factor is that the gun is not and never truly has been a significant factor in our society.
Legal and illegal guns are in circulation, but our society as a whole, is gun free unlike America.
Rog
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Post by thebfg on Oct 3, 2017 9:53:10 GMT
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." I don't think this should necessarily be repealed. Just add a clause that firearms must be limited to flintlock muskets and pistols, as existed at the time the amendment was written. I think that is a fair point and not one I've seen brought up. I imagine it has though. people do go a bit over the top with their constitional rights. back then America and indeed the world was a very very different place. and I imagine being armed was very important back then. but now? like you say back then it probaly took twenty minutes to reload. you could hardly go on a massacre. with today's automatics and fast reloading it's probaly about time it was amended again.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 10:02:28 GMT
We dont have legal guns in this country however that hasnt stopped a couple of large killings has it? Hungerford and the Scottish one begins with a D I think. Blair banned guns and still I can buy them on any street corner in Britain!! weren't those two incidents before the ban. Yes. Public opinion after Dunblane was a major force in driving subsequent gun control legislation in the UK (Thankfully).
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